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7018. arkymalarky - 4/20/2007 4:16:11 AM Awwww. I'm not going to let Bob read that post. He complains about my snoring. 7019. clydefo - 4/20/2007 6:17:31 PM Re: 7016. The Glycemic Load load.
Because of it's high fiber and water content with a moderate calorie count, Pritikin has always said that a baked potato sans skin makes a perfect between-meal snack. 7020. thoughtful - 4/20/2007 7:26:20 PM Key point at end of the article posted: And in their own research, Roberts said she and her colleagues have found that low-glycemic index diets do seem more effective for overweight people who naturally secrete high levels of the hormone insulin, which regulates blood sugar.
Further, it's not just about losing weight but being healthy. As I said before, you can lose weight eating nothing but chocolate and ice cream cones so long as you limit the total calorie intake, but that doesn't mean you'll be getting adequate nutrition doing it that way.
The point is the damage done by excess insulin is what is to be avoided.
And I'm sorry, clydefo but a baked potato without skin is a very high glycemic load and will definitely cause insulin rush.
See, for example, association between potatoes and type 2 diabetes.
And why without skin since it contains a lot of nutrients? 7021. clydefo - 4/20/2007 7:54:54 PM Insulin rush from a potato. Somewhere there must be a minute by minute graph showing the changes in blood sugar and insulin after eating a potato. On an empty stomach in the lab. I don't know how a "rush" is defined, but it would be interesting to observe.
A snack potato would normally be eaten before the stomach has emptied from the previous snack or meal and it's sugars would simply become part of the steady feed to the furnace. Part of the deal is to eat filling, low calorie foods right along so that one is always at least partially full. Eat to prevent hunger, not to remedy it. Pritikin is being overcautious about the solanine in any greenish skin. 7022. thoughtful - 4/20/2007 8:50:23 PM Clydefo, here's an article about the glycemic index and how they calculate it. They do test people's blood sugar over time after consuming the food vs. a control substance. The result is the starch in white potatoes yields a higher glycemic response than does table sugar.
For the most part, people don't eat a potato on an empty stomach, but as part of a full meal. Despite that, the nurses' study shows that white potatoes in particular are correlated with diabetes. I know my father had it as did his mother and brother and they were all 'meat and potatoes' people. In fact, my dad always said it wasn't a meal without potatoes. 7023. clydefo - 4/20/2007 9:39:27 PM Pritikin Longevity Center:
Nearly 40% of Type 2 diabetics on insulin injections became insulin-free.
70% of diabetics on oral drugs eliminated the need for these drugs. 7024. arkymalarky - 4/21/2007 6:15:05 AM Speaking of that, Bob's latest bloodwork was excellent, and his doctor said she didn't consider him diabetic any more. His program and maintenance have really paid off for him, and he's actually more enthusiastic about it since his readings, as opposed to taking an "as you were" attitude. Mainly, I think, because he feels so much better all the way around. The difference (and this has only been since the blood results a couple of weeks ago) is that he doesn't have apoplexy considering a bite of cobbler and ice cream and we shared a dessert today for the first time in over three years.
My program is going better, and though we ate out today (a monthly payday tradition as Arky school teachers who are paid on the same day of the month), I have had more water and fruit and more vegetables than I was having (still not a lot of veggies, but better than none), and I can exercise more since the thyroid medicine, without being sore or worn out in five minutes. I think they're going to have to adjust the meds upward based on other symptoms, but who knows until she does another blood test in about three weeks. She started out low, of course.
Work stress is continuing, unfortunately, and evidently it will be the second week in May before things settle down for me--after I get through these two grad classes and a school year that has been one of the worst of my 26 year career (nothing to do with my students or classes at all, but very unpleasant and stressful). That's not unique to me, though. We're all having a rough time, and I'm seeing no evidence that misery loves company. Years like this happen, and in some schools it's an every year thing, but we're not used to it. 7025. arkymalarky - 4/22/2007 10:39:13 PM I'm not going to do a daily diary in here or anything, but I am back on track and feeling better. The main thing I have noticed with the thyroid medicine is that I seem to be sleeping better than I have in years. It's still been less than a week, though, so it may be a coincidence. I definitely feel better, my hoarseness, which I'd attributed to allergies is getting better, and I've lost a couple of pounds (a significant cut in calories). I can also exercise more without feeling like crap.
I'm getting a routine going, and that's my best bet for everything. I just do better with one, and my routine for about four years now has been chaos, due mostly to circumstances beyond my control, or at least circumstances that have made establishing a routine around them almost impossible. 7026. arkymalarky - 4/22/2007 10:40:15 PM I've lost a couple of pounds WITHOUT a significant cut in calories. 7027. Wombat - 4/22/2007 10:48:47 PM Arky:
I would urge you to keep a food diary. It seems a little weird at first, but once it becomes part of your routine, it takes a few minutes a day. After about a month, unless you have an incredibly varied diet, with lots of new foods, you will have amounts and caloric values down to almost shorthand. According to my dietician, the act of starting and keeping a food diary itself will cause you to lose weight. It makes you very aware of what you are eating, and offers relatively easy ways to make minor changes in your diet. These changes have an incremental effect; if you make enough of them, it will really help with weight loss. 7028. arkymalarky - 4/22/2007 11:23:28 PM Oh I definitely am doing that--just not in the Mote, which I thought I might share as a daily diary/blog-type thing. I will still hopefully post regularly if not daily, but the rest of y'all would get pretty bored pretty fast with it. Instead I'll do an update/blog-type thing and keep my daily diary (I have a neat notebook just for it). It does help me, as well as having an eating routine. Bob did it when he started out and continued for probably a year or so, and it helped him a whole lot.
And nothing helps me more than being able to be home a lot, which has been a real issue for the last few years. Since I'm only taking one class this summer and it starts at noon and goes three hours, five days a week, I'm thinking I can eat an early lunch and not eat "in town" right after class, but instead come home and have a snack and then supper later. 7029. clydefo - 4/23/2007 4:06:39 PM Another reason to avoid processed food.
By JUSTIN PRITCHARD
The Associated Press
Monday, April 23, 2007; 8:57 AM
LOS ANGELES -- The same food safety net that couldn't catch poisoned pet food ingredients from China has a much bigger hole.
Billions of dollars' worth of foreign ingredients that Americans eat in everything from salad dressing to ice cream get a pass from overwhelmed inspectors, despite a rising tide of imports from countries with spotty records, according to an Associated Press analysis of federal trade and food data....
...When U.S. Food and Drug Administration inspectors at ports and border checkpoints look, they find shipments that are filthy or otherwise contaminated. They rarely bother, however, in part because ingredients aren't a priority...
...Meanwhile, the ingredient trade is booming _ particularly since 2001, when the Sept. 11 attacks focused attention on the security of the nation's food supply.
Over the past five years, the AP found, U.S. food makers prospecting for bargains more than doubled their business with low-cost countries such as Mexico, China and India. Those nations also have the most shipments fail the limited number of checks the FDA makes....
...By its own latest accounting, the FDA only had enough inspectors to check about 1 percent of the 8.9 million imported food shipments in fiscal year 2006. Topping the list were products with past problems, such as seafood and produce.
"I don't ever remember working on ingredients," said Carl R. Nielsen, a former FDA official whose job until he left in 2005 was to make sure field inspectors were checking the right imports. "That was the lowest priority, a low priority."
There are other reasons ingredients aren't thoroughly examined. Unlike rotting fish or moldy vegetables, ingredient testing often requires a laboratory. Analyzing samples takes days and can irk importers who don't like the choice of holding their product or risking a costly recall if they go ahead with distribution...
7030. alistairconnor - 4/23/2007 4:30:16 PM That's yet another reason why I prefer short food supply chains. I estimate that 60% of what I eat is grown within 50 miles of where I live.
I like to know what I'm eating, so I buy very little in the way of processed foods. If I ever get sick from eating something, I'll have a pretty good chance of tracking down where the problem came from. 7031. thoughtful - 4/23/2007 6:06:51 PM One area that always makes me suspicious is organic foods that come from places like mexico. How on earth would someone be able to prove that? And with the demand for organics going up and the US being short of supply, there are more and more imported products in that regard.
But even beyond that, the food inspection rigor has deteriorated be it imported or domestic.
Scary stuff. 7032. alistairConnor - 4/23/2007 6:41:09 PM I don't know how organic certification works in the US, but I have complete confidence in certified organic food which is available in France. The companies that do the certification are thorough and require complete traceability, and are strictly audited themselves. A lot of organic stuff in France comes from North Africa, so there are similar political and economic issues to Mexico. The organic producers have a major incentive to ensure there is no fraud, because they get a good price premium. 7033. thoughtful - 4/23/2007 6:41:25 PM clydefo, you know and i know that self reported results from pritikin do not make a controlled study. Further, the aspects of the diet over which we have no disagreement could certainly on their own account for the benefits to diabetes patients...losing weight, avoiding refined carbs and sweets, eating smaller more frequent meals.
I looked up the noted reference in diabetes care and can't find anything other than this reference which discusses frequency of meals, but nothing about the % of carbs vs fats vs protein in the diet.
I was unable to find anything based on the other 2 references which were light on details indeed.
7034. thoughtful - 4/23/2007 6:56:47 PM But that led me to search and find A Low-Fat Vegan Diet Improves Glycemic
Control and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in
a Randomized Clinical Trial in Individuals
With Type 2 Diabetes.
Very interesting study, except of course it was done only on 99 people and its was only carried out for 22 weeks. Many people can see improvements in lipid readings for a short period of time until their livers kick in and generate the cholesterol their body needs. I would like to see this study followed for a longer period of time for both lipid levels and ability to maintain the restrictions of a vegan diet.
Further, there was this interesting little detail buried in the study:
To test whether the effect of diet on
A1C was mediated by body weight
changes, a regression model was constructed,
including baseline A1C, weight
change, and diet group as predictors of
A1C change, among those whose hypoglycemic
medications remained constant.
In this model, the effect of diet group was
no longer significant (P0.23)..
So in other words, for some the weightloss led to the improvement in the diabetes, not so much the diet.
They also made the point that the vegan diet was easier to follow, which I found very surprising. But they weren't requiring the vegan dieters to limit calories at all...only food types. They do make the point that the point of failure for those following the ada diet was due to higher saturated fat intake which is easy to do when eating meat and such. Following a vegan diet, it's easy to eat a lot of volume and still keep overall calorie count low.
Of course schwarzbein has a vegetarian option as part of her plan, but includes a larger share of protein than pritikin, though from plant based sources. Further, note that even this vegan diet had 15% protein vs. pritikin's 10%.
So the important question of how much protein in the diet is required remains. Further I would like to see a comparison of a vegan diet vs a carb controlled diet that doesn't take into account the level of fat or saturated fat. Because they were counting both, it really wasn't a controlled study....and definitely not double-blind. 7035. thoughtful - 4/23/2007 7:16:25 PM Then again, there are studies like this one: that suggest deteriorating conditions for diabetics who follow a higher carb diet.
RESULTS--The site of study as well as the diet order did not affect the results. Compared with the high-monounsaturated-fat diet, the high-carbohydrate diet increased fasting plasma triglyceride levels and very low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels by 24% (P < .0001) and 23% (P = .0001), respectively, and increased daylong plasma triglyceride, glucose, and insulin values by 10% (P = .03), 12% (P < .0001), and 9% (P = .02), respectively. Plasma total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels remained unchanged. The effects of both diets on plasma glucose, insulin, and triglyceride levels persisted for 14 weeks. CONCLUSIONS--In NIDDM patients, high-carbohydrate diets compared with high-monounsaturated-fat diets caused persistent deterioration of glycemic control and accentuation of hyperinsulinemia, as well as increased plasma triglyceride and very-low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, which may not be desirable.
7036. clydefo - 4/23/2007 10:04:19 PM I certainly agree that results claimed by the Pritikin Center can't be compared to a controlled study. Probably though, their accumulated data over the years has been used for such.
I expect they would agree that there are other ways to treat diabetes, including other exercise/diet regimens. Although the nutrition debate rages, I don't think the integrity of the Center's numbers has ever been impugned. I really don't know much about the diabetes side of it. I can only vouch for the other benefits of their exercise and eating strategy.
The JAMA study cited in 7035 was studying ...a high-carbohydrate diet containing 55% of the total energy as carbohydrates and 30% as fats was compared with a high-monounsaturated-fat diet containing 40% carbohydrates and 45% fats. The amounts of saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats, cholesterol, sucrose, and protein were similar...
Pritikin would not call 55/30/15 a high carb diet. He might call it a "doomsday" diet. His is 80/10/10. Is the 40/45/15 control diet some special diet normally used for diabetics? The subjects were taking glipizide. The study may be entirely valid, but I'd like to know who funded it.
Pritikin's case for eating only enough protein and fat to meet the body's repair and mainenance needs and to provide for needed body chemistry makes sense to me. More than that is excess and must be treated as such. Cleaner, more efficient blood with less platelet clumping and metabolic "ash" to eliminate. He differs from strictly Vegan diets in that limited lean meat is o.k. Whether a plant or animal source, pay attention to the protein and fat content. He limits beans, non-fat dairy and soy because of high protein. Nuts are concentrated fat calories to be avoided.
A very basic and low-prep version of the regimen is easy and convenient for me to stick to. With herbs, spices and fancy recipes, it can be made to satisfy the epicure. 7037. arkymalarky - 4/24/2007 2:49:57 AM Well, the weight seems to be dropping fairly fast with this thyroid medicine. I know that will plane off and I'm fine with that. I just feel like when my thyroid reading is "normal" I will have a good idea of where I really am wrt weight for my long-term goals.
I had class tonight and ate out, as usual, but got full on half what I'd been eating. I gave Mose the rest rather than taking it home.
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