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6124. robertjayb - 6/9/2004 7:07:02 AM because i'm stupid... 6125. KuligintheHooligan - 6/12/2004 1:06:07 AM I would be very interested in comments anyone could make on the articles I am referencing below. I recently had a friend tell me that HIV does not cause AIDS, and he provided some links to that affect. Of course, I thought he was just as nuts to say that as was the President of South Africa, Thabo Mbeki, who said similar things a few years ago. However, the articles below cause me to ponder anew the whole matter.
I am no expert on these things, of course, but anyone who would like to take the time to read the articles and make any substantive comments (particularly if they can spot fallacies in the arguments used in the articles) would be most helpful. Thanks.
http://www.duesberg.com/subject/africa2.html
http://www.duesberg.com/viewpoints/kintro.html
6126. KuligintheHooligan - 6/12/2004 1:09:50 AM If the above piques your interest, take a look at this site:
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data2/introduction.htm 6127. judithathome - 6/12/2004 1:55:14 AM Kuligan's links from the above posts:
# 1
# 2
# 3
6128. judithathome - 6/12/2004 1:59:15 AM Those are very interesting links, Kuligin, but none seems to be more recent than 2000. 6129. robertjayb - 6/17/2004 9:03:29 AM An epidemic of diabetes? Wot the hell? Diabetes isn't contagious.
FORT DEFIANCE, Ariz. (AP) -- Tyrone Davis already stopped at a gas station near the Arizona-New Mexico state line and again minutes later at a store in Window Rock, but the bathroom breaks didn't help. The next day, the burly Navajo man was in the emergency room -- and among the latest to join the diabetes epidemic sweeping Indian tribes.
Despite years of efforts by federal health officials and millions of dollars for treatment, the number of Indians with diabetes has more than doubled over the past decade to more than 107,000 cases.
6130. alistairConnor - 6/17/2004 5:19:06 PM "epidemic" does not imply contagion. It's accurate to apply it to a health- or lifestyle-related problem. 6131. Ulgine Barrows - 6/17/2004 5:37:38 PM I had to wait in several restrooms, in the time I spent in the Navaho Nation. The way those women washed their hands? Conservationists.
They need water.
Diabetes. Give water. 6132. alistairConnor - 6/17/2004 5:43:19 PM With respect to whether AIDS is caused by a virus, there is no doubt or ambiguity whatsoever. (excepting people who believe the earth is flat, or who do not "believe in" evolution, for example.)
There is however a huge ambiguity, in epidemiological terms, with respect to diagnosis in poor countries. The symptoms of AIDS are many, varied and often non-specific; testing for it is complicated and very expensive. As a result, there is a tendency to categorise any undiagnosed illness as AIDS, therefore undoubtedly to overstate the numbers of HIV-positive people in Africa, simply because there is no way of accurately knowing. However, the fact that there is an AIDS epidemic in Africa, and that there are millions of Africans infected with the HIV virus, is undeniable.
To use the ambiguity about numbers, as some seem to do, to attack public health measures aimed at getting treatment to the millions of Africans who will die without it, strikes me as being most likely ideologically motivated. It reminds me somewhat of those "historians" who quibble about whether the number of Jews killed by the Nazis was nearer to five or six million, in order to deny finally that the Holocaust ever happened. 6133. alistairConnor - 6/17/2004 5:44:06 PM Diabetes. Give water.
Bullshit. Diabetes. Stop eating shit food. 6134. Ulgine Barrows - 6/17/2004 6:05:35 PM Baby, did you ever live with someone who had diabetes?
What's your defintion of shit food. 6135. alistairConnor - 6/17/2004 6:11:04 PM An epidemic of diabetes among a specific population (as opposed to a particular individual, where the causes might be quite specific and not necessarily diet related) is diet related. I'm willing to bet that the Navajo population in question used to eat better than they do now. Possibly, for example, they are losing their traditional eating habits and foods; possibly they have entered the cash economy and can afford stuff they couldn't before; many reasons are possible, but the direct cause is going to be diet. 6136. alistairConnor - 6/17/2004 6:14:09 PM I actually shared a house for a couple of years with a woman whose parents and sister were obese, and diabetics. She was solidly built to start with; she ate lots of refined foods, absurd amounts of sugar in her tea, etc. and became obese before my eyes. She was lucid about it, and aware that she would become diabetic, partly because of her heredity, partly because of her behaviour.
It made me very sad. I lost contact with her, but I have no doubt that she's a diabetic now. Unless she had a psychoanalysis or something, instead. 6137. judithathome - 6/17/2004 9:40:18 PM What's your defintion of shit food.
White flour, refined sugar, Twinkies and things of that ilk, Coke, Kool-aid, Wonder bread, KrispieKremes, candy bars, fatty burgers, french fries....just for a start.
6138. thoughtful - 6/17/2004 9:52:12 PM Processed foods full of salt, sugar and other sweeteners, and trans fats. Generally foods our ancestors wouldn't recognize like cheeze wiz and cheetos. Generally foods in the central aisles of the grocery. Food in the outer aisles tend to be healthier.
Nutrition action letter recently reviewed a bunch of the popular diets and concluded that the south beach diet was one of the healthier diets out there...controlled carbs, balance of fats, whole grains.
I'm still doing schwarzbein and doing very well on it. 6139. arkymalarky - 6/18/2004 1:40:41 AM My blood sugar always tended toward low, but I badly need to lose the weight I gained this past couple of years, so I've been working on diet and exercise--which at the moment is housecleaning, but it's been a lot of physical work.
My big battle is Pixy Stix. I'm on my last bag now. I think. 6140. KuligintheHooligan - 6/18/2004 4:04:58 AM alistair, re: your post 6132
Please give this article a read and let me know what you think.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epafrica.htm 6141. arkymalarky - 6/18/2004 12:56:40 PM I read a good short article from Time in the doctor's office (first allergy shot, no reaction) on that very thing. Clinton was asked about South Africa and Mbeki and said that he'd been concerned about the tuberculosis vaccine program which had resulted in development of tougher strains and about two American articles he'd read on HIV/AIDS connection. He wanted to know that his countrypeople would get the same quality of medicine Americans were getting and Clinton said he assured him they would. I didn't notice the date on the magazine (it was a doctor's office, so no telling), but you might be able to find it in the archives at the CNN site or directly in the Time site. 6142. KuligintheHooligan - 6/18/2004 2:43:36 PM Mbeki is fairly well known for saying roughly four years ago that it was not conclusive that HIV causes AIDS. His critics considered it a politically motivated opinion based on nothing more than Mbeki didn't want to shell out the tax dollars to pay for antiretroviral drugs for infected South Africans. However, it isn't a stretch to think that he was motivated (also) by reading articles or comments which claimed such things. 6143. arkymalarky - 6/18/2004 2:56:56 PM Well, that's what he said to Clinton, so his comments may have been affected by that. The article is not terribly old, btw. Probably a few weeks.
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