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47237. arkymalarky - 5/21/2019 7:03:38 AM bore repeating.
Lies like what trillium and her Lord and Master spew are the most disgusting sort. They take the hard work that people like her would never dare to do and defile it, along with the parents and children who go through such tragedies. The true story link is right here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/VotePulver/status/1122324913690484737
47238. Trillium - 5/22/2019 12:19:54 AM wabbit, looks like you disagree with me. No "cite". I am not uncomfortable with death, but hastening death is not something I would be eager to do.
I know what I will want for *myself* when the time comes (morphine if it's needed), but I would not be comfortable with terminating somebody else's preemie as part of my job.
Do you think you could do this without problems? Your friends? Governors often have difficulty coming to decisions to execute prisoners. So do soldiers and police. Most people don't take life lightly.
If you actually want a "cite" there is a medical ethics textbook by Gregory Pence that goes into some detail about the history of abortion laws in the United States, and details of the controversy from different angles.
Georgetown U has used the Pence textbook in one of their courses. Medical Ethics: Accounts of Groundbreaking Cases. If you can get a used copy of the Pence textbook, you might want to read the part about very late term abortion and see what you and your friends think.
old Georgetown syllabus with names & links related to several medical controversies, not just abortion
47239. Trillium - 5/22/2019 12:20:45 AM Arky, you get very angry when others disagree with your viewpoints, and begin with hateful and divisive rhetoric. Not civil 47240. Trillium - 5/22/2019 12:31:31 AM Cut & pasted above and it made a sentence to wabbit unclear. The name of the Georgetown class is "Bioethics"
The Pence textbook is Medical Ethics: Accounts of Groundbreaking Cases.
Pence's book is food for thought, not just about reproductive controversies, but also different surgeries and treatments that many people will experience for themselves or in their families over a lifetime (but usually without adequate preparation)
The book is worth checking out. I learned some things I had never thought about... that kidney transplants have a high failure rate; that as soon as a seriously crippled woman obtained the "right to die" in a groundbreaking case, she decided that preferred to live. The issue was about control over her life, not actually a desire to die 47241. arkymalarky - 5/22/2019 6:17:06 AM I call out liars. Don't like it, don't lie. 47242. arkymalarky - 5/22/2019 6:27:24 AM "I know what I will want for *myself* when the time comes (morphine if it's needed), but I would not be comfortable with terminating somebody else's preemie as part of my job."
That's the most disgusting lie I've ever read in this site in the 15 plus years I've been here. Even from you. How you sleep at night I really don't know. Hanging upside down, I'm sure.
47243. Ms. No - 5/22/2019 7:04:56 PM 92% of abortions take place before 13 weeks of gestation. Nobody is aborting healthy, viable, preemies.
The folks who keep saying that women are aborting their healthy babies days or even minutes before delivery are lying in order to whip up outrage. No doctor is performing abortions on healthy babies in the 8th and 9th month of pregnancy.
They also aren't standing over a crying dismembered fetus while it gasps for air in its death throes after an abortion performed in the 14th week of pregnancy.
The constant rhetoric about the cruelty, the irresponsibility, or the just plain slutty selfishness of women speaks to the true motives of the pro-birth movement.
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47244. arkymalarky - 5/22/2019 9:31:37 PM Russian and white supremacist trolls have started pushing lies of this sort to get people to mistreat their children or to strongly believe other people are mistreating them in order to sow more chaos among ignorant white Americans. Pizzagate type shit. The more it looks like they might lose in 2020 the more desperate their Tactics get. It's instructive how much dangerous misinformation regarding American children has come from that sordid little corner of the web. 47245. wabbit - 5/22/2019 10:04:13 PM Trillium, it isn't a matter of disagreement about being pro-choice or anti-choice, although I suppose that's the easy assumption on your part. I would like you to find a doctor in this country who would be willing to perform the procedure you described as having happened to your high school classmate on a healthy, viable unborn child. At least provide some sort of proof other than your opinion, or anyone else's opinion, as to what the Democrats want. Or was that *not* the implication in your post? 47246. Trillium - 5/22/2019 11:51:54 PM wabbit, you don't seem to believe that a medical professional would perform an abortion on a viable infant; but 24 weeks is in that range, especially with advances of care.
Following link has photos of a five-month preemie, Fontaine Dickey. Take a look. It's not a venerable newspaper, but the photos are the point:
Fontaine Dickey at birth, 1 lb 13 oz
47247. Trillium - 5/23/2019 12:00:21 AM Ms. No, if you take a look in the Pence Medical Ethics textbook, you'll find a description of a very late term abortion that became controversial.
I don't have the book anymore, but IIRC the controversy involved a teaching hospital in Boston, in the 1970s, with a healthy baby born alive and then euthanized. 47248. Trillium - 5/23/2019 12:00:47 AM
In the 1990s in New York City, there was the case of Dr. Abu Hayat.
Abu Hayat/Rodriguez baby
47249. arkymalarky - 5/23/2019 1:37:12 AM Slithers right past your quote from her, for which you requested a cite, Wabbit, saying Democrats support "full term abortion." 47250. arkymalarky - 5/23/2019 1:38:34 AM And if you want to wait for her to lament the babies abused and neglected to their deaths at the hands of our government at the border, you going to wait a long time. 47251. Ms. No - 5/23/2019 6:16:59 PM Trillium
Your exceptions - most of which are more than 20 years old and one of which is more than 45 years old - just go to prove my point that no doctor is performing abortions on healthy, viable babies in the 8th and 9th month of pregnancy.
In fact, no doctor who isn't a criminal is performing abortions on healthy perhaps-going-to-be-viable fetuses after 6 months. 24 weeks is the legal cut-off.
I'm also wondering if you actually read the chapter in Pence's book on Abortion. The verdict in the Edelin case was unanimously overturned and the initial case is widely recognized to have been a political stunt targeting Dr. Edelin as a black doctor, performing an abortion at 20 weeks under the relatively new Roe verdict.
Prosecuted by a famously Catholic DA who was running for office, Edelin was initially convicted by an all-white, predominantly male, Catholic jury. He was a test case, a shot across the bow of Roe v. Wade, and the Supreme Court ruling overwhelmingly supported him on his appeal.
47252. arkymalarky - 5/23/2019 6:47:08 PM Wish we had a like button on this site.♡ 47253. arkymalarky - 5/23/2019 6:47:44 PM Cool! The heart on my keypad showed up! 47254. Ms. No - 5/23/2019 10:07:19 PM Ooh! How'd you do that? 47255. arkymalarky - 5/24/2019 1:01:56 AM That's neat I didn't know if anybody else would be able to see it. It's on my Samsung phone keyboard 47256. wabbit - 5/24/2019 5:13:02 PM Thank you Ms. No, you've said what I would have.
Did I ever mention here at some time in the past that Dr. Edelin was my first OBGyn doctor? tmi follows: at 16 my mother was freaked out that I hadn't started having a period yet. Dr. Edelin was at the Chelsea Naval Hospital and she took me to see him. I was perfectly fine, just thin and athletic and these days we know that can lead to very light or non-existent menstruation in women. It certainly did for me, for many years. I always felt lucky. I found Dr. Edelin to be a soft spoken and thoughtful man. He passed away a few years ago.
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