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10413. concerned - 7/26/2012 7:37:28 PM Where do you think the American socialists GOT those salutes?
From a Socialist, Francis Bellamy, in 1892, who recommended it for US school children. You could have looked this up yourself, you know, rather than asking such an ignorant question.
10414. Wombat - 7/26/2012 8:11:50 PM So I guess Concerned will no longer be saying the Pledge of Allegiance, since Bellamy also wrote that. Darned Socialist... 10415. Wombat - 7/26/2012 8:20:06 PM If the neonazi and holocaust-denying web-site where I found the currency is to be believed, the scrip was issued after the Czar abdicated but before the October Revolution. You do know there were two revolutions in Russia, Concerned?
Also, I must say that using a neonazi and holocaust-denying web site as a source for anything having to do the Nazis and their relationship to socialism is a new low for you, Concerned. 10416. judithathome - 7/26/2012 8:36:43 PM You could have looked this up yourself, you know, rather than asking such an ignorant question.
And you might have noticed that your guy was the same one who wrote the Pledge.
Ignorant is as ignorant does, buddyboy.
10417. Wombat - 7/26/2012 9:04:30 PM According to the Wikipedia, the origins of the umm... "socialist" salute may go as far back as Rome, but its first recorded use was during the French Revolution.
Concerned, when you get up every morning, do you look in the mirror and ask yourself "how am I going to demonstrate my profound ignorance and stupidity today?" 10418. vonKreedon - 7/26/2012 9:13:42 PM Bellamy didn't really write the pledge, I mean his version didn't even have "under God" in it. Damned Socialist... 10419. Wombat - 7/26/2012 9:32:52 PM Here's the web-site which Concerned appears to have used as his authority on the relationship between Nazis and Socialists. You might need to fumigate your computer afterwards...
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com 10420. concerned - 7/26/2012 9:34:39 PM And you might have noticed that your guy was the same one who wrote the Pledge.
That's an irrelevancy wrt my point, so I didn't want to confuse small minds with it.
10421. concerned - 7/26/2012 9:35:21 PM Re. 10419 -
Facts are inconvenient things, sometimes. 10422. concerned - 7/26/2012 9:37:05 PM re. 10418 -
Bellamy wanted his pledge to have international application, so there was no reference to the USA in it either - as a good Socialist he wanted to encourage nationalism which nurtures socialism. 10423. concerned - 7/26/2012 9:39:01 PM Re. 10419 -
Actually, I *didn't* look at that site this time around, although I'm pretty sure I've seen it sometime in the past. 10424. Wombat - 7/26/2012 10:02:51 PM Concerned, if Bellamy was a "nationalist," he would have made reference to the United States in his version of the pledge. You do know what nationalism is, don't you? Or are you getting it mixed up with "internationalism," which is its opposite?
Facts from a web-site that is attempting to justify Nazi-ism by saying it is similar to other forms of government are to be taken with a major grain of salt, as anyone with the ability to reason critically will tell you. Apparently you are unable to discern this, which doesn't say much for your ability to think critically, and demonstrates that your intellectual capital is running a rather severe deficit. 10425. concerned - 7/27/2012 5:14:12 PM I cannot comment on your site from here Wombat - I don't want to open questionable sites from work. If it is trying to 'justify' Naziism, that is all the more reason for me to steer clear of it, at least until I am on my home PC. IMO, Naziism reduces the justification for Socialism as a whole.
So all your sneering comments in your last post are inapplicable and wasted. But we know your history of ultimately looking foolish in these types of circumstances, as now. 10426. concerned - 7/27/2012 5:43:25 PM And before you dismiss the international implications of the lack of reference to the US in the Bellamy pledge, you should be aware that Francis Bellamy was a proponent of a dogma called "military socialism" and a national socialist who wanted to promote this form of socialism internationally and whose 1st cousin Edward Bellamy who shared his socialist beliefs wrote an internationally printed socialist fantasy novel called "Looking Backwards" that was translated into German in 1888. This novel inspired similarly inclined people such as Adolf Hitler.
From the site: Edward Bellamy & Nazism/Fascism:
In 1935, Columbia University requested three people (John Dewey, a philosopher; Charles Beard, a historian; and Edward Weeks, the editor of Atlantic Monthly) to list the ten most influential books of the preceding 50 years (from 1885 to 1935). On all three lists, prepared independently, Edward Bellamy's Looking Backward appeared second on the list, the first being Karl Marx’s Das Kapital. It is important to remember that during this time of Bellamy's great influence, the National Socialist German Workers’ Party had been in existence since 1920, with electoral breakthroughs in 1930, and dictatorship in 1933. Many writers have suggested that Bellamy was viewed as an alternative to Marx, and that view raised his influence among German National Socialists.
According to Gail Collins, at that time "...far more American workers read Looking Backward than ever made it through Marx..." Tomorrow Never Knows, The Nation, Vol. 252, Issue # 2, January 21, 1991. The book was "debated by all down to the bootblack on the corner," reported Henry Demarest Lloyd in 1894.
So, there is little question that until WWII, Naziism and Communism were overwhelming considered 'alternative' forms of socialism across the world.
There was no false dichotomy imposed on Naziism as being 'right wing'. That was a spurious label appended by the Left only beginning during WWII itself, and having absolutely nothing to do with the political nature of Naziism and Communism per se.
10427. concerned - 7/27/2012 5:44:39 PM ...overwhelmingly... 10428. Wombat - 7/27/2012 7:45:26 PM So, Concerned appears to be a fan (believer perhaps?) of one Rex Curry. Very interesting... 10429. Wombat - 7/27/2012 8:01:48 PM Rex Curry:
"Rex Curry is an attorney and is in private practice specializing in criminal law. Professor Curry received an A.A. degree from Hillsborough Community College, a B.A. in Mass Communications from USF, and a J.D. degree from Florida State University with honors."
According to his admirers he is also a historian, a philologist, and symbologist. He also happens to be a hard-core libertarian, who believes that the state is inherently authoritarian, and that public education--and appurtinances such as the pledge of allegiance--are totalitarianism run rampant. 10430. concerned - 7/27/2012 8:06:15 PM Re. 10428 -
Sorry. I haven't seen his site for months, if not longer. 10431. concerned - 7/27/2012 10:33:54 PM FWIW, when I did check his site a while back, I found it interesting. He certainly deals with information that a lot of people wouldn't want to talk about, which is a pity, since an open discussion of his information and claims should clarify which parts are truthful and which are not. And I am not talking about merely taking cheap shots at his credibility. 10432. Wombat - 7/27/2012 10:56:02 PM Most of Concerned's information seems to originate with Rex Curry.
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