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10421. concerned - 7/26/2012 9:35:21 PM Re. 10419 -
Facts are inconvenient things, sometimes. 10422. concerned - 7/26/2012 9:37:05 PM re. 10418 -
Bellamy wanted his pledge to have international application, so there was no reference to the USA in it either - as a good Socialist he wanted to encourage nationalism which nurtures socialism. 10423. concerned - 7/26/2012 9:39:01 PM Re. 10419 -
Actually, I *didn't* look at that site this time around, although I'm pretty sure I've seen it sometime in the past. 10424. Wombat - 7/26/2012 10:02:51 PM Concerned, if Bellamy was a "nationalist," he would have made reference to the United States in his version of the pledge. You do know what nationalism is, don't you? Or are you getting it mixed up with "internationalism," which is its opposite?
Facts from a web-site that is attempting to justify Nazi-ism by saying it is similar to other forms of government are to be taken with a major grain of salt, as anyone with the ability to reason critically will tell you. Apparently you are unable to discern this, which doesn't say much for your ability to think critically, and demonstrates that your intellectual capital is running a rather severe deficit. 10425. concerned - 7/27/2012 5:14:12 PM I cannot comment on your site from here Wombat - I don't want to open questionable sites from work. If it is trying to 'justify' Naziism, that is all the more reason for me to steer clear of it, at least until I am on my home PC. IMO, Naziism reduces the justification for Socialism as a whole.
So all your sneering comments in your last post are inapplicable and wasted. But we know your history of ultimately looking foolish in these types of circumstances, as now. 10426. concerned - 7/27/2012 5:43:25 PM And before you dismiss the international implications of the lack of reference to the US in the Bellamy pledge, you should be aware that Francis Bellamy was a proponent of a dogma called "military socialism" and a national socialist who wanted to promote this form of socialism internationally and whose 1st cousin Edward Bellamy who shared his socialist beliefs wrote an internationally printed socialist fantasy novel called "Looking Backwards" that was translated into German in 1888. This novel inspired similarly inclined people such as Adolf Hitler.
From the site: Edward Bellamy & Nazism/Fascism:
In 1935, Columbia University requested three people (John Dewey, a philosopher; Charles Beard, a historian; and Edward Weeks, the editor of Atlantic Monthly) to list the ten most influential books of the preceding 50 years (from 1885 to 1935). On all three lists, prepared independently, Edward Bellamy's Looking Backward appeared second on the list, the first being Karl Marx’s Das Kapital. It is important to remember that during this time of Bellamy's great influence, the National Socialist German Workers’ Party had been in existence since 1920, with electoral breakthroughs in 1930, and dictatorship in 1933. Many writers have suggested that Bellamy was viewed as an alternative to Marx, and that view raised his influence among German National Socialists.
According to Gail Collins, at that time "...far more American workers read Looking Backward than ever made it through Marx..." Tomorrow Never Knows, The Nation, Vol. 252, Issue # 2, January 21, 1991. The book was "debated by all down to the bootblack on the corner," reported Henry Demarest Lloyd in 1894.
So, there is little question that until WWII, Naziism and Communism were overwhelming considered 'alternative' forms of socialism across the world.
There was no false dichotomy imposed on Naziism as being 'right wing'. That was a spurious label appended by the Left only beginning during WWII itself, and having absolutely nothing to do with the political nature of Naziism and Communism per se.
10427. concerned - 7/27/2012 5:44:39 PM ...overwhelmingly... 10428. Wombat - 7/27/2012 7:45:26 PM So, Concerned appears to be a fan (believer perhaps?) of one Rex Curry. Very interesting... 10429. Wombat - 7/27/2012 8:01:48 PM Rex Curry:
"Rex Curry is an attorney and is in private practice specializing in criminal law. Professor Curry received an A.A. degree from Hillsborough Community College, a B.A. in Mass Communications from USF, and a J.D. degree from Florida State University with honors."
According to his admirers he is also a historian, a philologist, and symbologist. He also happens to be a hard-core libertarian, who believes that the state is inherently authoritarian, and that public education--and appurtinances such as the pledge of allegiance--are totalitarianism run rampant. 10430. concerned - 7/27/2012 8:06:15 PM Re. 10428 -
Sorry. I haven't seen his site for months, if not longer. 10431. concerned - 7/27/2012 10:33:54 PM FWIW, when I did check his site a while back, I found it interesting. He certainly deals with information that a lot of people wouldn't want to talk about, which is a pity, since an open discussion of his information and claims should clarify which parts are truthful and which are not. And I am not talking about merely taking cheap shots at his credibility. 10432. Wombat - 7/27/2012 10:56:02 PM Most of Concerned's information seems to originate with Rex Curry. 10433. Wombat - 7/28/2012 12:26:46 AM Here's Curry on Franklin Roosevelt:
"The USA’s worst president, the socialist Franklin Delano Roosevelt, imposed national socialism in the U.S., along with socialist slave numbers (social security) in 1935 as a workers program for Roosevelt’s vision of the industrial army that coincided with similar numbering programs of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. During that time children in government-schools were required by law to salute the flag with the straight-armed salute in military formation daily on the ring of a government bell, like Pavlov’s lapdogs of the state." 10434. Wombat - 7/28/2012 12:30:50 AM I've looked over Curry's website, and he seems to base his assertions on his own--uncorroborated--"research." I can see why this would appeal to Concerned. 10435. concerned - 7/28/2012 12:52:24 AM Most of Concerned's information seems to originate with Rex Curry.
'Seems to'? Pot calling kettle black much here?
Fact is, I've got nothing from that site in any posting during the last several months, at least.
10436. concerned - 7/28/2012 12:55:14 AM I agree that FDR was one of the worst presidents in history, as would any coherently thinking person. He deserves the lions share of blame for the persistence of the Great Depression all through the '30's with his anti-capitalistic policies when virtually the entire rest of the world except the USSR which was a real Socialist hell-hole had recovered by mid-decade. 10437. Wombat - 7/28/2012 1:41:53 AM We've been over this before, you know. Roosevelt was concerned about running up deficit spending, so he cut back on stimulating the economy, and the recovery slowed...
What do you think of "Socialist Slave Numbers?" 10438. concerned - 7/28/2012 4:00:15 AM Definitely over the top. I don't see any problem, and some obvious advantages with adults having SSNs.
OTOH, I would draw the line at mandatory RFID implantations. 10439. iiibbb - 7/30/2012 1:53:32 PM Romney says we should protect Israel from nuclear attack
A preemptive "Yes".
But what I don't get is why people think the threat of a nuclear strike against what is as holy a city for Islam as it is for Judaism or Christianity.
Nuking Israel doesn't make it useful to Palestinians either.
I really don't get the "eminent threat" of it. 10440. Wombat - 7/30/2012 3:13:39 PM There isn't an imminent threat...yet. I would have thought that our recent experience with "preventative" wars (Iraq), would make us reluctant to engage in another one in the Middle East at this time.
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