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10688. iiibbb - 2/14/2013 2:52:01 PM Alistar... first off, among gun owners I am not the norm. They are more intense that I, so consider you are arguing against a moderate viewpoint. I am arguing for limits on the number of weapons people can own. I am arguing for more intense registration. I am arguing for mandatory training. I'm arguing that a claim of militia membership be made to mean something.
These are all things the gun control side say they want... so when you try to pick my proposal apart like I was an extreme version of what the NRA would have as gun rights, you fall fall flat.
I don't want to disarm the state or the police. But they have selected a set of arms for a patrol officer that is considered appropriate protected for working. I want to be able to protect myself. I have been in situations where a gun might have been needed and the police were nowhere to be found.
Police response time is not all that great for violent crimes, so there's no way you will convince me it's unreasonable.
Then back to the 1/3rd. It takes a significant portion of the country to pull of a successful popular revolution. The United States does not have a political climate that is anywhere near that... so Judith's concerns about some malcontents making war with the state... isn't all that compelling to me. 10689. Wombat - 2/14/2013 5:21:05 PM It takes a much smaller fraction to sow terror by attacking the government and its functionaries (which is casting a pretty wide net). There are parts of the country where a small number of heavily-armed people could create highly publicized havoc by attacking those who they deem oppressors, based on a faulty understanding of the Constitution. They may well already outgun the local law enforcement officials. They also would have at least the tacit support of elements in one of the U.S.'s major political parties. 10690. iiibbb - 2/14/2013 6:38:00 PM The Battle of Athens
Terror is not equal to revolution.
Any so-called malcontents would have to greatly overestimate their cause and popularity for something like that to happen... and then it would make no sense for them to make war on their neighbors. It would undermine their credibility outright and they would be squashed like bugs.
Talking about a modern American revolution outside of political action is ludicrous.... unless the economy collapsed and the government's collusion with Wall Street and the "ruling" class were demonstrated.
Then I suppose all bets would be off. 10691. iiibbb - 2/14/2013 6:39:32 PM Man... I just read my post to Alistar.... this autocorrect makes funny choices when I don't have time to proof it. 10692. iiibbb - 2/14/2013 6:48:43 PM A militia that is not subordinate to the citizens isn't a militia, it is rogue.
10693. Wombat - 2/14/2013 6:51:59 PM If you look at what terrorism has already done to the US Constitution in the last decade, I wouldn't be so sure.
10694. Ms. No - 2/14/2013 7:16:29 PM i3b3,
re: 10673
I don't find the "we're defending the country" or the "we're defending ourselves against tyranny" arguments anything but laughable. It's like a bunch of folks who think Red Dawn was a documentary. I've got one word for anyone who thinks he's going to prevail against the government in a firefight: Waco
Your proposals sound entirely reasonable with one addition and with the exception of the police restrictions or, rather the expansion of approvable arms for civilian militia members based on what the cops are carrying.
My proposed addition would be that arms approved for militia ownership can't be sold out of the trunk of a car or even at a private gun show. If folks want to sell or buy militia-grade arms, there should be militia-restricted gun shows/sales. Or, hell, let them buy them from the government and be registered as a militia member and then they can take their approved, registered arms across state and county lines with the rare exception of certain highly populous or sensitive areas. (NYC, Washington D.C., etc.)
I'm not in favor of equalizing arms between cops and civilians for a couple of reasons. First, cops receive extensive training in the use and handling of their weapons that isn't practical for civilians. Second, law enforcement has to account for the rounds they fire while civilians don't.
If a civilian wants to pay for training and skill maintenance equivalent with that of law enforcement and then follow equivalent guidelines for use and handling --and pay for the regulatory agency that will keep track of civilian compliance-- I'd be much more inclined to agree with equivalent arms. It doesn't seem a likely prospect since the vast majority of people couldn't afford the time or money required to maintain such a thing.
10695. iiibbb - 2/14/2013 9:44:28 PM Too bad we're not in charge Ms. No... there is a compromise somewhere between us.
I think police train less often than you think... and police auxiliary less often than that. I've seen qualifying on the order of twice a year for duty weapon, and annually for off-duty weapon. If one were to take a continuing education approach to "training" you could have things like CMP or IDPA matches count as training. Those are what I participate in, and they focus on safety first...
I think you and I are nearly on the same page with regards to militia weapons... register them, and I like the idea of them being non-transferable in a private party sale.
It seems like a perfect foundation for a hybrid of what everyone wants.... except the prohibitionists. 10696. judithathome - 2/14/2013 11:09:17 PM Check out the documentary done by CNBC on Remington weapons... 10697. judithathome - 2/14/2013 11:10:52 PM Link:
Remington Under Fire 10698. iiibbb - 2/18/2013 5:46:31 PM Common Sense Gun Control?
People why the NRA gets a little crazy... this is why... 10699. iiibbb - 2/18/2013 6:02:17 PM They claim the clause was a mistake, but an alert reader finds the same phrasing in previously submitted bills
Sheesh. 10700. arkymalarky - 2/18/2013 9:36:38 PM People have to pay attention but nothing excuses the NRA. 10701. iiibbb - 2/18/2013 9:48:44 PM that's true ... lazy post on my part.
try
"People wonder why the NRA ranks swell so much in spite of the crazy.... this is why...." 10702. iiibbb - 2/18/2013 9:49:51 PM I'm guessing that kind of sound bite is worth 100 times the political mileage as anything crazy the NRA says. 10703. arkymalarky - 2/18/2013 9:56:20 PM I think they will lose in the long run over how they have conducted themselves. But they're the only game in town so they're the default spokespeople for gun owners, which is bad for gun owners. 10704. arkymalarky - 2/18/2013 9:57:15 PM But despite that I doubt stuff will get through in legislation that isn't very mainstream. 10705. iiibbb - 2/18/2013 11:57:33 PM The underlying back story is that legislators sign onto bills without reading them. 10706. arkymalarky - 2/19/2013 12:23:34 AM Oh I know that's true, but they should be more careful here because they know others are combing them. 10707. robertjayb - 2/19/2013 7:54:16 PM Is there more bang, bang or is our pitiful media just paying attention?
TUSTIN, Calif. (AP) -- A shooting spree through Orange County, Calif., left four people dead Tuesday, including the shooter, and several others injured.
The shootings began at 4:45 a.m. when deputies responding to a call found a female shot multiple times in a house in Ladera Ranch, said Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino.
Three more people were fatally shot in the next 25 minutes after carjackings in Tustin and Santa Ana, according to the Orange County Register (http://bit.ly/12HgccN ).
Amormino could not immediately confirm that the subsequent shootings were related to carjackings.
The suspect shot himself at an intersection in Tustin, the sheriff's spokesman said.
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