|
10977. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:16:41 AM No, I disagree, if Zimmerman is acquitted it will be a triumph of law over emotion. The evidence, IMO, clearly shows that Trayvon knocked Zimmerman down, straddled him and beat him. Yes, Zimmerman should not have followed him, but that's not a crime. Yes, if Zimmerman had been unarmed, then in all likelihood, no one dies. But within the law he should be acquitted.
10978. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:17:12 AM That was to 109075.
10979. anomie - 7/6/2013 5:27:54 AM Good call, VK. I can't say Zimmerman is totally innocent, but 2nd degree murder is a reach on such slight evidence. 10980. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:33:31 AM We disagree on what the evidence we are aware of shows, but I think his 911 call is compelling. He followed someone for no reason, provoking a confrontation, and shot him. And I'll guarandamtee you that if Martin had a gun and killed Zimmerman, most defenders of Z would be calling for Martin to be convicted. 10981. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:36:55 AM He had been told to leave off by the 911 operator and didn't. And since he spent money he raised on himself he may not have the best representation. 10982. anomie - 7/6/2013 5:51:28 AM Assuming everything you say is true, Arky (which I doubt), I still wouldn't convict him for murder. You still haven't provided evidence for that. And if we're speculating, Let's say Zimmerman wanted to just roam the streets and kill bad guys, he could do it better than this. 10983. judithathome - 7/6/2013 6:04:29 AM Well, he was loaded for something...is it usual for someone to carry a gun loaded with hollow points? 10984. judithathome - 7/6/2013 6:47:10 AM By the way, I think the prosecution overstepped on the charge and I think they are going to lose.
I think Zimmerman is obviously guilty since the young man is dead. Therefore, I think he needs to pay in some way but I fear he's going to get off scot-free due to over-reach in the charge and a poor prosecution.
This could have been avoided...the death, I mean...had he done what they asked him to do. I don't care how menacing the kid looked, if Zimmerman hadn't left his truck, "god's will" (as he referred to it to Sean Hannity) wouldn't have been done.
10985. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:12:07 PM Judith - I agree, Manslaughter would have been a reasonable and possibly winnable charge. OTOH, just because a young man is dead does not mean that the person who killed him is guilty of anything. The young man was on top of Zimmerman and beating him, so Trayvon was not the innocent party that he was first portrayed to be. Also, following someone through your neighborhood is not a crime, no matter who suggests you not do so. 10986. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:29:34 PM I feel like I'm in bizarro world. You can't just do what Zimmerman did. I'll go a step further. Had Martin been a woman Zimmerman would be convicted. 10987. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:47:39 PM If you are stalking me and accost me I should have a right to defend myself and be "innocent." 10988. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 6:40:14 PM Arky - Stalking has a different connotation, more long term and predatory, than following. For reasons I'm not clear on, you see Zimmerman stalking Martin, while I see it as following. You see Zimmerman as accosting Martin, but the evidence has Martin accosting Zimmerman and then throwing him to the ground and beating him before being shot. If Zimmerman had not had a gun Martin would, in all likelihood, have been charged with assault and battery.
And Zimmerman, no matter what the verdict, is not getting away scot free with anything. 10989. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 7:10:09 PM It's not about Zimmerman. It's about whether people who might look scary to such cowards are allowed to walk on the street without being followed and shot. He could have at any point elected to do what he was told. 10990. judithathome - 7/6/2013 8:01:19 PM but the evidence has Martin accosting Zimmerman and then throwing him to the ground and beating him before being shot.
From where? That's what Zimmerman and his best buddy say but there were no eye-witnesses to it as you describe it. There were people who saw them ON the ground but I don't recall anyone saying they saw the entire thing, only the "after" part when they were already on the ground. It's Zimmerman's word...to his best friend who put it in a book...that he was accosted. He also said Martin leaped out of the bushes...which is bullshit because the bushes in that complex are not even knee-high.
Why those fools let that best friend testify is beyond me...it was all hearsay. Some have said the prosecution called him because they felt the defense would have anyway...if that had happened, the prosecution could have jumped up and objected to every single thing the guy said because all he testified to were things Zimmerman had TOLD him.
Zimmerman, by warrant of the fact he was following Martin with a gun loaded with hollow point bullets and no safety on was the aggressor.
As Arky said, if that had been a woman, Zimmerman would be toast. It was dark...how could he tell if it wasn't just an athletic girl from the local high school basketball team when he started following? He couldn't...because he'd made up his mind it was a "menacing" young man...one of "those who always get away with it".
And now HE wants to become on of those who gets away with it...and probably will.
And Zimmerman, no matter what the verdict, is not getting away scot free with anything.
Really? How so? Looks pretty alive and kicking to me...
10991. Trillium - 7/7/2013 1:28:20 PM Question: what if Zimmerman had in fact been a gay man? Didn't Jeantel suggest to Trayvon that that was why the "creepy-ass cracker" was following him? (Flagrant racism and homophobia, isn't it?)
If Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman because he thought a creepy-ass cracker homosexual was "following" him, was that assault justified? Just askin'. Seems like this case is jumbling a lot of politically correct responses. 10992. arkymalarky - 7/7/2013 4:17:46 PM The point is it doesn't matter. Change anything in this scenario, change anyone into anything you want. It does not change the fact Zimmermann followed a stranger for no reason and when the Stranger turned to confront him, Zimmermn shot and killed him. 10993. arkymalarky - 7/7/2013 4:31:05 PM Deflection from the point is a standard tactic,but it doesn't change anything. It doesn't matter what Martin thought. What matters is what Zimmerman did. And if he feels compelled to stalk strangers, yet when confronted shoot to kill, he's a menace to society. 10994. Ms. No - 7/7/2013 5:08:53 PM I don't think Zimmerman was out of line initially --- he's on the neighborhood watch in an area that had recently seen multiple break-ins by primarily black youth. It's not odd or abnormal for him to be interested in a strange black kid dressed like prior suspects walking through the neighborhood at night. If he hadn't been interested, he'd be a lousy member of the neighborhood watch.
Zimmerman was overzealous in continuing to follow Martin after being instructed not to --- but that can be understood based on the prior break-ins for which no suspects had ever been apprehended.
And then we get to all the idiocy and tragedy anyone could ever want.
Martin, rather than dial 911 himself -- understandable because of the poor record police have in the south for helping rather than harming blacks -- decides to confront Zimmerman and physically assault him.
Who does that? Teenage boys with more macho than mental aquity for the most part. Teenage boys are hotheads and they like to solve things with violence.
Unfortunately for everyone involved, Zimmerman was armed, so he shot the kid who jumped him for following --- which he likely wouldn't have done to begin with if he hadn't been armed.
So, I agree with VonK that Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter --- he went out into the street with a gun and followed another person with the intent to interfere and that person ended up dead --- he would almost certainly have been convicted.
Because the media or whoever decided to spin this as a case of racial injustice, it is unlikely that Zimmerman will be convicted. A conviction for manslaughter would've been cake, but proving premeditation and/or intent to kill just isn't likely to fly. And that's too bad, because folks shouldn't wander around "policing" their neighborhoods with guns. We have professionals for that, and Zimmerman certainly wasn't one.
10995. arkymalarky - 7/7/2013 7:51:56 PM But he wasn't on the neighborhood watch. He was acting on his own. That to me is a big part of the issue. He was taking it on himself to do a job no one, not even the community, had authorized him to do. And when told to stop he continued. And his behavior since has made anything he says suspect, so going by his injuries alone he was not in danger. 10996. arkymalarky - 7/7/2013 8:00:18 PM And people who are on neighborhood watch call 911 and follow their instructions. He doesn't even meet the level of vigilante. The kid was walking.
My BIL's house was being broken into by a young black teenaged boy while he was at work. His retired neighbor, a black man who had worked in railroad security, failed 911. He told the operator the kid was in the window and he was going to shoot if the kid didn't stop. They asked his authorization, he told them, the kid didn't stop and the neighbor killed him halfway in the window. The kid had a gun out and died on top of it. Zimmerman was an unauthorized idiot from the gitgo who did not follow proper procedures at any point. That Martin didn't either is not material. He was the threatened one.
|
