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11007. arkymalarky - 7/8/2013 5:16:50 PM The sweetest ones are when you divebomb someone who thinks he's the only poster around at the moment and is going in for a freebie. 11008. vonKreedon - 7/8/2013 5:27:06 PM Well Arky, we are now all in agreement that Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter and not murder.
Regarding Zimmerman not being a member of the neighborhood watch:
CS Monitor:
"But Zimmerman's family, his neighbors and his lawyer paint a different picture: That of a devoted neighbor, keen enough to protect the neighborhood that residents, in establishing a local Neighborhood Watch group last year, appointed him the captain. The organization was not registered with the national Neighborhood Watch program, but was set up with the assistance of the Sanford Police Department. Zimmerman initiated the program, according to Wendy Dorival, the department's volunteer coordinator."
While Martin felt threatened he was the one who broke Zimmerman's nose and was beating Zimmerman's head against the ground when he was shot, so on balance at the time of the shooting Zimmerman was the one being done harm and so had tangible reason for feeling his life was in danger.
Zimmerman was never ordered to stay in the car, the 911 dispatcher suggested that he stay in the car, not the same thing as a police officer ordering you to stay somewhere.
I completely agree with i3b3's assessment of the situation. 11009. judithathome - 7/8/2013 5:57:26 PM The non-emergency operator he called wasn't authorized to give him orders not to follow...they can't do that, which is why they "suggested" he stay in the car: "we don't need you to do that"...and suggested he call 911. More than once.
and telling Zimmerman that he would die that night?
We only have Zimmerman's word...and his buddy's who testified as to what was said...for that. Nice and tidy, don't you think...the only one still living gets to claim what was said. And it's allowed into testimony even though it should have been labeled "hearsay" since the guy only heard it from Zimmerman after the fact and wasn't even around until way after the shooting. 11010. judithathome - 7/8/2013 5:59:11 PM It's so comforting to me to know that every yahoo at the SuperSav packing heat is carrying a gun loaded with hollow points and the only reason they are carrying that gun is shoot to kill. 11011. vonKreedon - 7/8/2013 6:13:59 PM Why else would one carry a weapon designed specifically to kill? Any gun safety/use class teaches that if you shoot then shoot to kill. It's what guns do. And, as 13b3 said, hollow points are less likely to cause additional casualties by going through the target and walls behind the target. 11012. judithathome - 7/8/2013 6:34:48 PM Well, you are talking to someone who thinks guns belong in the military and in movies so.... 11013. vonKreedon - 7/8/2013 6:46:37 PM I'm largely in agreement with you Judith, but that is the not law and so we have to judge the case as the law is not as we wish it were. 11014. Ms. No - 7/8/2013 8:51:37 PM Can they go back and charge him with manslaughter if he gets off for murder? 11015. vonKreedon - 7/8/2013 8:56:51 PM That would be double jeopardy. I'm not sure if the jury can return a verdict on anything other than the charge of murder 2. 11016. robertjayb - 7/9/2013 1:23:15 AM Zimmerman will walk...
...and he should. The guy is a doofus and a wannabe cop. I have no use for either species, but it seems to me his story hangs together pretty well. Sure, he has tried to cast himself in the best light. But, hey, some of the more outrageous howlers for his hide are talking life in prison.
Trillium is correct, It is a miserable situation. vonK is correct that a 911 operator's "We don't need you to do that." comment cannot be construed to be a police order.
So a kid who shouldn't be dead is dead. A sad sack who should not have been in the position he was in (with the apparent blessing of his neighbors and the local police) has achieved infamy for doing his duty as he saw it.
Neither law nor common sense required Zimmerman to take a potentially injurious, or even fatal beating. Being alone and taking a pounding from a stranger at night is unlike a bar fight or a punchup with the brother-in-law. There you could figure the damage would stop or be stopped short of serious injury. Zimmerman couldn't count on that so he relied on the tired cop cliche: "Being in fear of my life I discharged my service weapon."
I am pleased there is a all-woman jury. Zimmerman should be as well. They will try very hard to do the right thing.
11017. judithathome - 7/9/2013 2:22:33 AM That would be double jeopardy
VonK, what I heard today from the talking heads was that the jury can decide between second degree OR manslaughter...does that mean both charges are up in this case? Like they can decide on the lesser charge? 11018. vonKreedon - 7/9/2013 2:25:45 AM It sounds like they can find Zimmerman guilty on at least Murder 2 or Manslaughter. I doubt they will. If the DA had immediately charged Zimmerman with manslaughter this all would have passed without notice. 11019. judithathome - 7/9/2013 2:57:19 AM Well, not really...it would have still been a big deal on the news and the political shows.
I seem to recall a lot of "stand your ground" events were happening around that time... 11020. vonKreedon - 7/9/2013 3:00:32 AM I don't think it would have been big news if he'd been charged immediately, black kids get shot and killed all the time without it making the news. 11021. vonKreedon - 7/9/2013 3:01:49 AM OTOH, your point about "stand your ground" being in the wind is right and so you may be right that this would've bubbled up even if routine. 11022. arkymalarky - 7/9/2013 3:46:11 AM this was sliding by until his parents looked to the public for pressure to have an investigation. Until then it was being dropped. 11023. vonKreedon - 7/9/2013 4:28:28 AM Yep.
11024. judithathome - 7/9/2013 5:07:29 AM Well...had it been my son who was shot to death, I think I'd have done the same thing. 11025. iiibbb - 7/9/2013 11:47:05 AM Zimmerman's non-racist non-murder aside... the police department acted deplorably.. and pretty racist. 11026. judithathome - 7/9/2013 5:43:12 PM So now the defense is trying to bring in an animated film of Zimmerman's version of what happened. When George gets off, he will be in debt for the rest of his life.
I think this trial is going to be one big AD for the defense team...
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