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11157. anomie - 7/16/2013 12:36:11 AM Judith, you give an excellent example of the many false equivalences that make it so difficult to have reasonable discussions about this case. This one...the OJ trial... You're making nonsense. 11158. judithathome - 7/16/2013 12:45:46 AM Well, I guess I'll just shut up then...because I wouldn't want to impose nonsense on such reasoned remarks as it's being madness that one side called the defendant a murderer...when that is what he did. What should it be? An accidental "life taker"? Is that more genteel?
How about "if Martin has just stayed home and had water instead of wanting a cold tea, poor George wouldn't have had to shoot him?" 11159. judithathome - 7/16/2013 4:56:19 AM Stand your ground changed everything in Florida and certainly had a bearing on this case. The law as written prior to SYG would have convicted Zimmerman but after the law was changed by SYG, it practically gave carte blanche to anyone who wants to carry a gun and shoot someone they have a problem with.
Before SYG altered the reading of the self-defense law, Zimmerman would have been guilty by warrant of the fact he left his truck and followed Martin. 11160. judithathome - 7/16/2013 5:00:48 AM This is 13 minutes long but it explains what I was awkwardly trying to say:
Lawrence O'Donnell Explains It All For You 11161. Trillium - 7/16/2013 12:18:35 PM Odonnell lost me when he said Trayvon was shot for no good reason. There is strong evidence that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, had already broken his nose and was repeatedly punching him in the head. That can be deadly, and a sports referee recently died after a face punching incident.
I am surprised at all the posters who claim that breaking someone's nose and punching them in the head is harmless.
You can't just walk up to strangers and punch them. That is assault, and potentially deadly assault. I work some weekends with a young woman who was brain damaged, blinded and apparently has recurring headaches after she was beaten on her head and thrown down.
Lawrence ODonnell is clueless. Same for others who are in denial about beatings and head injuries. 11162. Trillium - 7/16/2013 12:38:32 PM Additionally, in a public space you can follow or watch as you please. Decades ago I was walking with a friend in the West 70s of Manhattan, off Broadway, when we observed a very fit young man doing something very much like rock climbing on a brownstone ledge, to the side of the entrance steps.
The climbing man was trying an apartment's windows to get them open from his perch on a ledge. He began to curse us and said he was just trying to get into his apartment. My friend said that was fine, we were just watching. Eventually the climber got off the building front and left the area in the other direction, but he would have had no right to assault us for watching him. By the way, he wasn't "black" but that makes absolutely no difference. What he was doing looked like he was breaking in, whether it was his apartment or not. In an area plagued by breakins, it isn't unreasonable to wonder about the behavior of strangers. Whether you are afraid or not, punching strangers is totally inappropriate. 11163. iiibbb - 7/16/2013 2:23:45 PM He shouldn't have gotten out of the car"
They let him off because that's the way Florida's law is written, but that doesn't take the blood of Zimmerman's hands.
Or, as The Onion puts it Zimmerman Found Not Guilty, Technically, But C’mon. 11164. iiibbb - 7/16/2013 2:49:38 PM In other news 11165. anomie - 7/16/2013 2:53:24 PM He shouldn't have got out of he car. This is really the lesson we should all learn to improve race relations, prevent profiling? We should just never get out of our cars. Cause if we do and we get assaulted by a minory individual, it's all our fault and we should just lay there and get our heads beat in because we had the audacity to get out of our cars. Stay in your cars people. It's the right thing to do. 11166. iiibbb - 7/16/2013 3:01:43 PM anomie ... you are being obtuse.
He shouldn't have gotten out of the car to follow someone he thought was up to criminal activity not knowing if the assumed criminal was alone, or with a group.
period.
He may be innocent of murder, but it is dumb to do anything without backup or an egress plan.
period.
Zimmerman is a dumbass. No court is going to make him innocent of being a dumbass.
period. 11167. anomie - 7/16/2013 3:12:46 PM Good thing most of us will never go on trail for being a dumbass. No one could cast the first stone. The people saying Zimmerman should have stayed in the car want him convicted. They want him in jail. 11168. anomie - 7/16/2013 3:14:37 PM You're accusing him of dumbassism in light of people calling for decades of jail, and you think I'm the one being obtuse. It's a topsy turvy time in here. 11169. robertjayb - 7/16/2013 3:15:44 PM Tragedy become travesty becoming farce.
11170. anomie - 7/16/2013 3:29:38 PM Yes. Well put. 11171. iiibbb - 7/16/2013 4:17:23 PM In the light of Florida law... he's innocent. I won't deny.
It is indeed a good thing most of us won't go on trial for being dumb-asses; however, there are a lot of people in jail for being dumb0asses none-the-less; and a great many of those dumb-asses I would readily have Zimmerman trade places with-- I won't deny. 11172. iiibbb - 7/16/2013 4:18:20 PM But that's just me and my obviously queer standards for what it should take to legally shoot someone... 11173. iiibbb - 7/16/2013 4:21:55 PM And in principal I am all for stand your ground laws. The idea of shooting someone in self defense and having to prove one's innocence is abhorrent to me, particularly in your own home or residence. In NY we have this stupid "duty to retreat"... at least in the letter of the law...
But I also find the parsing of events in this case to be a little off. 11174. judithathome - 7/16/2013 4:39:58 PM "Lawrence ODonnell is clueless"
I posted that link in order for people here to read the Florida law as it has been amended. Why that makes someone with an opinion different than yours "clueless" is rather arrogant.
I suppose if it had been from a "newscaster" from FOX, he would be deemed brilliant. 11175. anomie - 7/16/2013 5:03:15 PM Using Fox is hitting below the belt, Judith. 11176. judithathome - 7/16/2013 5:10:48 PM Ha!
I used FOX because Zimmerman did.
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