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17430. PelleNilsson - 11/7/2005 8:16:41 PM We have had pets. When they have gone we have missed them. and we still have fond memories of them. But I think words like "mourn" and "grief" are too emotionally loaded and too important to use about animals, who briefly shared our lives. Perhaps this has to do with my farm background. The good farmer loves his animals and tries to give them as good a life as possible. But when the time comes to send them to slaughter he is not sentimental about it. It is part of the cycle. 17431. Ms. No - 11/7/2005 9:38:42 PM How you do or don't feel about your own pets is your business, what I object to is telling someone else that they ought not to feel as they do when they lose a pet.
That's pointless and rude at the very least. 17432. PelleNilsson - 11/7/2005 10:28:12 PM I haven't told anyone "what they ought not to feel". In my first post on the matter I said (emphasis added) "I don't understand this maudlin agonizing over the death of animals. Later I amplified on why I hold this view. Please explain how my "not understanding" something in your mind mutates into into my "telling someone else" how they should react to this something, and why my views on this are "pointless and rude", and, by implication, your own are just and objective.
17433. Ms. No - 11/7/2005 11:26:39 PM A lack of understanding that asks for enlightenment or explanation is entirely different from a stated lack of understanding that implies the view isn't worth being understood because it's ridiculous or was that not your intent in agreeing with Wonkers?
What a bunch of maudlin whining over a pet cat that lived a long life! Get another cat. Get another life. Cremating a cat and saving the ashes. Get real!
followed by
I'm with wonkers. I don't understand this maudlin agonizing over the death of animals.
If you don't get it, then fine, but what is the point in telling someone else that their pain is laughable? Explain to me how that isn't both pointless and rude? Was it any skin off your nose to simply not comment?
What Wonkers said was cruel. By agreeing with him what you said was also cruel. If you find that a meaningful and civil way to behave toward friends I hardly see why you'd object to me pointing out what I thought about it. 17434. Max Macks - 11/7/2005 11:40:32 PM My vote is with wonkers and Pelle
I have grieved over the loss of a pet
but to spend thusands of dollars on an animal
is understandable but IMO wrong. 17435. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 12:13:57 AM Ms. No, what I said was not cruel. It would have perhaps been impolite if the pet had been Loar's. I didn't say to to Loar's daughter, and I wouldn't unless I knew her pretty well. 17436. Ms. No - 11/8/2005 12:48:32 AM It was his pet. Had you read his posts with any comprehension at all you'd have seen that.
It was a crappy thing to say whether the cat was Loar's or his daughter's alone. Or would you think it perfectly okay for someone here to mock your child's grief over a loss? 17437. arkymalarky - 11/8/2005 1:46:36 AM Go No!
Calling someone's feelings "maudlin" is the same as telling them how they should or shouldn't feel, and disrespecting someone else's personal feelings is cold in any sense. "Get over it" is easy enough to spout when it's not your own feelings being dismissed.
Scott, I thought your daughter and mine were the same age. Someone else here has a daughter that age--Rick Nelson. And he and his wife have a new son, who must be about a year old. 17438. judithathome - 11/8/2005 2:04:00 AM But I think words like "mourn" and "grief" are too emotionally loaded and too important to use about animals, who briefly shared our lives.
Briefly share our lives? Fifteen years is a long time...I'd grieve over losing a LAMP that old.
If you love something and that somethiong loves you back, "mourn" and "grief" are no where near too important to use when that something is no longer part of your life.
And who in hell was talking about spending thousands of dollars on saving a pet? Loar said very explicitly that the cat was old and had died in her sleep. And if anyone wants to spend their money on a pet cremation, that's their business. No one is asking YOU for the money with which to do it.
Get ready to ridicule me when the time comes to have my dog put to sleep...I'm glad I've been forewarned that Wonk and Pelle and whomever else will think I'm an idiot for feeling something after having to say goodbye to a loving friend. 17439. arkymalarky - 11/8/2005 2:08:52 AM I hope it's a long time before that, Judith. Klaus is such a sweetie. 17440. judithathome - 11/8/2005 2:11:10 AM I hope so, too, but realistically, he's going to be 17 in December. Even though he's in great health now, I know it's coming. 17441. arkymalarky - 11/8/2005 2:11:24 AM Oh Macnas! Where are you? ;-)
Farming background may have something to do with views toward pets. Bob is still trying to resolve the idea of having an animal in the house--and that's been the case for about ten years now. 17442. judithathome - 11/8/2005 2:14:26 AM In Hawaii, they have a bit of advice..."Don't name the animals you're going to eat." 17443. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:24:26 AM Ms. No, perhaps I was influenced by Loar's own tactless, blunt, confrontational style. That's not normally my style unless provoked. I thought the cat was Loar's daughter's. I wasn't aware it was his. That makes it even more maudlin--for a grown man, when his cat dies, to weep as if it were his child or parent. If we weep over pets what does that leave for our relatives and friends? Like Pelle, my background is the farm (ranch, actually) where animals are valued and treated humanely, but not mourned as if they were human. Do you think John Wayne or Gary Cooper would have whimpered over the death of a cat? Perhaps a horse or dog. But a cat? Real men don't cry for pet cats or eat kiech. 17444. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:27:18 AM Arky, my experience conforms to Bob's--on farms or ranches, dogs and cats aren't allowed in the house. They get along fine outdoors and in the barn in cold weather. Maybe that's why the attachment may be less than with a pet that sleeps on the foot of your bed. 17445. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:45:01 AM Judith, you're putting words in my mouth, or at least ignoring some of my comments. Loar's post launched the subject of the death of pets. I, because of discussions I've had recently with a friend over very expensive treatments for his old and feeble dog's cancer, enlarged the discussion, quite naturally, to include outlandish veterinary treatments for pets (BTW while human Americans, not to mention Bangladeshis go without medical care). You are correct that Loar said nothing about veterinary care of the cat. I didn't say he did. But he did mention that his daughter is having the cat cremated and plans to keep the ashes in her home. Doesn't that strike you as a bit much? What about the famous L.A. pet cemeteries? IMO, we go way to far in death rituals for people, let alone for pets. What's your opinion on heroic veterinary care and cemeteries for pets? 17446. wabbit - 11/8/2005 3:16:48 AM If we weep over pets what does that leave for our relatives and friends?
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how grieving for a pet takes anything away from grieving for relatives/friends. 17447. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 3:22:51 AM Well, I guess I have a bit of the Duke of Ferrara in me as I pointed out once to CalGal when I likened her to the Duke's wife in Browning's "My Last Duchess." Methinks you and the other pet weepers have hearts "too soon made sad." My Last Duchess 17448. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 3:28:10 AM Yeah, Macnas, where are you when we need you? And what about iiibbb?. Surely he embodies the values of the wild west! W2's being pecked to death and needs reinforcements. 17449. judithathome - 11/8/2005 3:38:45 AM But he did mention that his daughter is having the cat cremated and plans to keep the ashes in her home. Doesn't that strike you as a bit much?
Not at all...I plan to do the same for my dog.
What's your opinion on heroic veterinary care and cemeteries for pets?
I don't know what you mean by "heroic"...if my dog is ill or in pain, I will definitely have him treated. If he is, in the opinion of my vet, past having a quality of life, I will accept that fact and have him put to sleep. I won't take "heroic" measures to extend his life if he can't enjoy that life or prolong it so I would feel better.
I have no opinon one way or the other on pet cemetaries.
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