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17437. arkymalarky - 11/8/2005 1:46:36 AM Go No!
Calling someone's feelings "maudlin" is the same as telling them how they should or shouldn't feel, and disrespecting someone else's personal feelings is cold in any sense. "Get over it" is easy enough to spout when it's not your own feelings being dismissed.
Scott, I thought your daughter and mine were the same age. Someone else here has a daughter that age--Rick Nelson. And he and his wife have a new son, who must be about a year old. 17438. judithathome - 11/8/2005 2:04:00 AM But I think words like "mourn" and "grief" are too emotionally loaded and too important to use about animals, who briefly shared our lives.
Briefly share our lives? Fifteen years is a long time...I'd grieve over losing a LAMP that old.
If you love something and that somethiong loves you back, "mourn" and "grief" are no where near too important to use when that something is no longer part of your life.
And who in hell was talking about spending thousands of dollars on saving a pet? Loar said very explicitly that the cat was old and had died in her sleep. And if anyone wants to spend their money on a pet cremation, that's their business. No one is asking YOU for the money with which to do it.
Get ready to ridicule me when the time comes to have my dog put to sleep...I'm glad I've been forewarned that Wonk and Pelle and whomever else will think I'm an idiot for feeling something after having to say goodbye to a loving friend. 17439. arkymalarky - 11/8/2005 2:08:52 AM I hope it's a long time before that, Judith. Klaus is such a sweetie. 17440. judithathome - 11/8/2005 2:11:10 AM I hope so, too, but realistically, he's going to be 17 in December. Even though he's in great health now, I know it's coming. 17441. arkymalarky - 11/8/2005 2:11:24 AM Oh Macnas! Where are you? ;-)
Farming background may have something to do with views toward pets. Bob is still trying to resolve the idea of having an animal in the house--and that's been the case for about ten years now. 17442. judithathome - 11/8/2005 2:14:26 AM In Hawaii, they have a bit of advice..."Don't name the animals you're going to eat." 17443. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:24:26 AM Ms. No, perhaps I was influenced by Loar's own tactless, blunt, confrontational style. That's not normally my style unless provoked. I thought the cat was Loar's daughter's. I wasn't aware it was his. That makes it even more maudlin--for a grown man, when his cat dies, to weep as if it were his child or parent. If we weep over pets what does that leave for our relatives and friends? Like Pelle, my background is the farm (ranch, actually) where animals are valued and treated humanely, but not mourned as if they were human. Do you think John Wayne or Gary Cooper would have whimpered over the death of a cat? Perhaps a horse or dog. But a cat? Real men don't cry for pet cats or eat kiech. 17444. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:27:18 AM Arky, my experience conforms to Bob's--on farms or ranches, dogs and cats aren't allowed in the house. They get along fine outdoors and in the barn in cold weather. Maybe that's why the attachment may be less than with a pet that sleeps on the foot of your bed. 17445. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:45:01 AM Judith, you're putting words in my mouth, or at least ignoring some of my comments. Loar's post launched the subject of the death of pets. I, because of discussions I've had recently with a friend over very expensive treatments for his old and feeble dog's cancer, enlarged the discussion, quite naturally, to include outlandish veterinary treatments for pets (BTW while human Americans, not to mention Bangladeshis go without medical care). You are correct that Loar said nothing about veterinary care of the cat. I didn't say he did. But he did mention that his daughter is having the cat cremated and plans to keep the ashes in her home. Doesn't that strike you as a bit much? What about the famous L.A. pet cemeteries? IMO, we go way to far in death rituals for people, let alone for pets. What's your opinion on heroic veterinary care and cemeteries for pets? 17446. wabbit - 11/8/2005 3:16:48 AM If we weep over pets what does that leave for our relatives and friends?
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how grieving for a pet takes anything away from grieving for relatives/friends. 17447. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 3:22:51 AM Well, I guess I have a bit of the Duke of Ferrara in me as I pointed out once to CalGal when I likened her to the Duke's wife in Browning's "My Last Duchess." Methinks you and the other pet weepers have hearts "too soon made sad." My Last Duchess 17448. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 3:28:10 AM Yeah, Macnas, where are you when we need you? And what about iiibbb?. Surely he embodies the values of the wild west! W2's being pecked to death and needs reinforcements. 17449. judithathome - 11/8/2005 3:38:45 AM But he did mention that his daughter is having the cat cremated and plans to keep the ashes in her home. Doesn't that strike you as a bit much?
Not at all...I plan to do the same for my dog.
What's your opinion on heroic veterinary care and cemeteries for pets?
I don't know what you mean by "heroic"...if my dog is ill or in pain, I will definitely have him treated. If he is, in the opinion of my vet, past having a quality of life, I will accept that fact and have him put to sleep. I won't take "heroic" measures to extend his life if he can't enjoy that life or prolong it so I would feel better.
I have no opinon one way or the other on pet cemetaries.
17450. judithathome - 11/8/2005 3:40:39 AM Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how grieving for a pet takes anything away from grieving for relatives/friends.
It's not just you.
17451. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 4:49:30 AM Judith, Why not go all the way and have him mounted by a taxidermist? 17452. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 11/8/2005 5:15:35 AM Wonk, when people grieve over their loss, pets or persons, they grieve for the loss of their attachment to them. With some people, their attachment to their pet can be deeper. Can't you appreciate or understand that? 17453. Macnas - 11/8/2005 10:59:53 AM Everybody, just relax and have a kitkat or something.
Some people, consider and treat pets as good friends. These people do mourn the loss of a friend when the animal invariably kicks off before they do. Cemetarys and all that stuff is just rich people crap.
And I agree pets can be good friends. If a person is alone or house-bound, then the pet might be the only friend. So, of course someone is going to mourn, or grieve if you like, over the death of that pet, maybe even as much as they would another human. And there is all different variations and levels of this, so, each to his own.
Myself, well, I do look at animals as animals, first and foremost. So I do not get into this whole zoomorphic thing where I see the animal as being like me, thinking like me and feeling like me etc.
I miss dogs when they have to go, (and I have shot the last 3) but not to any great extent. I have a working relationship with my dogs, we train and hunt and have a lot of fun out and about, but at the end of the day, the dog is not coming indoors and having a seat at the table.
So, each to his or her own on the pets thing. Like-said, some folk think of pets as people, some do not. Not a big issue to get in a fight over. 17454. judithathome - 11/8/2005 2:23:03 PM It's 6:20am and it is November and outside, it is 72°. 17455. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:42:14 PM Wiz, yes, I understand that. My objection isn't to the feelings but getting so maudlin about it and, even more, to ridiculous veterinary disposal (funeral, burial, cremation, cloning, etc.) expenses. 17456. wonkers2 - 11/8/2005 2:44:50 PM I recently went to the funeral of my 102-year-old aunt in western Nebraska and encountered less caterwauling than about Loar's daughter's cat. The death of a pet cat in his sleep at 15 is probably a blessing, certainly not a tragedy. Loar whines about his cat, and out comes the Mote's Greek chorus wailing along with him.
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