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17735. wonkers2 - 12/8/2005 3:59:34 AM The new cars are much better on ice than they used to be. 17736. jayackroyd - 12/8/2005 5:02:07 AM Yeah, wonk, the car was borrowed, and so I was being especially careful. Hitting the brake, even carefully, even provisionally, kicked in the ABS response, which worked great.
I still slowed down; f=ma is unchanged by brakes that don't let you skid. But it was an interesting illustration. 17737. alistairconnor - 12/8/2005 11:36:55 AM I know of nothing more terrifying than the unexpected and complete loss of control when you hit ice at, say, 30 mph on a twisty country road. I manage to do it to myself about every couple of years, and it's mildly surprising I haven't had an accident yet.
I've never had ABS, but I'm thinking that it must be of minimal use when you can't steer? Or does it actually give you some steerage traction? 17738. jayackroyd - 12/8/2005 2:35:58 PM It prevents a skid. It implements that "pump the brakes" thing you were taught in tenths of seconds. So you never lock the wheels. That doesn't mean your braking distance is shortened, of course. f=ma is unchanged. But it does mean you don't do 360 (or, as I once did on the Maine Turnpike, an 820).
There was an interesting article about the dangers of SUVs a while ago. One danger, this writer claimed, is that the combination of four wheel drive and ABS makes the driver feel like he can stop more quickly than he in fact can. Because you can stay straight and stop straight, the driver tends to think you can stop short too. But the cars (m) are a lot heavier than your ordinary sedan, so have a long stopping distance. 17739. jayackroyd - 12/8/2005 2:37:22 PM 2.5*360=720+180=900.
There, that's what I meant. 17740. Magoseph - 12/8/2005 2:48:12 PM Hello--It was -8°F when I arose, now it is -2°F and we'll have snow again this afternoon, but at least it'll be warmer than yesterday.
The DIL and I had our hair cut by our favorite guy who moved to a chic place he was very proud to show us. We had a nice lunch at a new Italian restaurant where we first fortified ourselves with a couple of Bocce Ball drinks. The Italian waiter couldn’t understand a word I said and neither could I understand him, so the DIL did the translating.
We had fun shopping as always—K is the right person you’d want with you for this task. She knows where to buy the best thing at a good price. Altogether, it was a very satisfying late morning and early afternoon, except for one thing—on the way back, I had to drive for 30 minutes in a single file at the speed of a turtle.
17741. thoughtful - 12/8/2005 3:43:09 PM Couple of things to remember in newer vehicles when driving in slippery conditions.
With ABS, don't pump the brakes, but keep steady pressure on them.
With front wheel drive, the driving is a bit opposite from rear wheel drive. So for example, when going down a hill, the weight in the front will slow the car in the front faster than the rear end, so the rear will want to come around you. Best to shift into a low gear which will keep the car from gaining too much speed and be able to accelerate slightly if need be to pull yourself out of a skid.
Same on corners. If the car breaks loose, it's the rear end that will try to come around, so rather than in the old days where they said no gas, no brake as with a rear wheel drive car, it's better to give just a little gas to the wheels which will start to grab and pull yourself out of the skid. But please make sure it is just a little gas...if its too much the wheels can grab too fast and get you into even more trouble.
Steering into the skid is unchanged from front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive.
Finally, when pulling up to a stop, it's easier to get a car with an auto transmission to stop by shifting into neutral. Auto transmissions keep forward momentum to the wheels which makes it harder to stop. This is especially helpful at stoplights where the stopped cars can cause the snow to melt which then refreezes as ice just where you need to stop.
Be aware that driving 4 wheel drive is very different from driving all wheel drive in slippery conditions. Both hubby and I have had our 4-wheel drive trucks break loose in what was not so terribly slippery conditions as the way the wheels are geared together can lead to odd responses. Once I was driving on a snow-covered road and suddenly the thing grabbed on one side and then the other and back and back again so it was weaving wildly across the road. To hubby, he was moving along nicely on a snow-covered road when the thing just broke loose and he did a 180 in the middle of the road. Fortunately for both of us there was no one else around.
All wheel drive is geared to power the wheel that isn't slipping so the adjustments are more gentle and flexible. In our subaru, I've never had trouble getting around even on unplowed roads and in freezing rain.
Also, be sure to keep a blanket, gloves, hat, boots and shovel in the car at all times in the winter just in case you find yourself lodged in a snowbank. 17742. thoughtful - 12/8/2005 3:59:33 PM Sigh.
I've been using my bed lamp to brighten my mornings gradually which seems to have helped a lot with my usual seasonal depression, but lately I've been feeling very stupid. It seems like things I should know, I don't...things I used to know, I've forgotten...and things I try to learn come with difficulty. Like I used to be a lot quicker and now my brain is slogging through mud. Is this just another form of depression? Mental laziness? Lead poisoning? Old age? Or is it just a result of reading "A Beautiful Mind". Often what I'm reading seems to cast a shadow over my day-to-day life.
Very frustrating.
At least I haven't received any messages from aliens through the fillings in my teeth. 17743. thoughtful - 12/8/2005 4:00:15 PM At least, not yet. 17744. alistairconnor - 12/8/2005 4:22:39 PM "It prevents a skid."
yes, but that's not generally my problem... it's just going in a straight line when the road bends, because there is no grip for steering. Can ABS help get control back in that situation, is what I was wondering. 17745. alistairconnor - 12/8/2005 4:23:59 PM I had a colleague who got radio reception through the fillings in her teeth. Thought she was going mad, but once she'd identified the station there was no doubt about it. 17746. thoughtful - 12/8/2005 4:37:21 PM No, ABS can't help regain control in that situation as it's all about braking. It will help you stop faster. While J's equation may be correct, it's a matter of friction loss. ABS will help maximize friction and thus slowing the car more efficiently than skidding.
If you have front wheel drive, then the way to help regain steering control is to just touch the gas to keep the front wheels turning and turn the wheel in the direction you want to go. If it's rear wheel drive, you need to let up on the gas, but don't touch the brake and turn the wheel in the direction you want to go.
I'd suggest checking your tires to make sure they have proper inflation and/or getting new tires or snow tires. Most of the people I've seen with that problem need new tires and need to slow down. 17747. thoughtful - 12/8/2005 6:25:19 PM thinking of wabbit. 17748. wabbit - 12/8/2005 6:32:39 PM Thank you, t'ful, my tires are ok.
Any more music anyone wants added to our work-friendly stream? 17749. Ms. No - 12/8/2005 6:40:16 PM Thoughtful,
Good thinking with the lamp. I still haven't adjusted properly to daylight savings this year which at this point means I might not ever. It's actually been great to wake up and really truly be awake before my alarm goes off, but it's tough getting up in the dark.
Do you drink coffee in the morning? Is there a timer on it so that you could combine the homey smell of coffee brewing with the light coming on and feel like you're waking up to company or something? 17750. Ms. No - 12/8/2005 6:41:35 PM Folks have been pretty stingy with their requests, so far.
I'm curious about the Jethro Tull Christmas song that Jay was talking about though.
---Oh, and you were right. It's ELO that did Nutrocker, not Manheim Steamroller.
17751. jayackroyd - 12/8/2005 7:29:26 PM It turns out there is a Jethro Tull Christmas album out.
That link is to the lyric sheet for the album positioned at the song I was thinking of.
The song sample is also up on the site, although I don't like this version as much as the one on the album (Living in the Past? Thick as a Brick?) and stops before the punch line. It's not up on Itunes, and if I have it, it's on vinyl and I've unhooked (long story) my cd burner from the music system. 17752. alistairconnor - 12/8/2005 7:43:31 PM You people still have rear drive cars? Lord, I thought they went out with the Ark. Last one I had was a Beetle, that ground to a halt in the early 80s. 17753. PelleNilsson - 12/8/2005 8:22:14 PM BMW and most of the Mercedes models are still rear drive. The Vovo I have now is my first car with front-wheel drive and I'm quite happy about it. With ABS, studded tires and anti-spin (works like the old diff-lock) I'm quite confident in difficult road consitions. Before that I had a BMW automatic with rear drive. With that combination you have little control of the car's behaviour on slippery roads. 17754. jayackroyd - 12/8/2005 8:28:32 PM There's an awful lot of 4 wheel drive here now. I think Suburu's entire line is 4 wheel drive.
Car nuts, like Mickey Kaus on Slate, prefer rear drive.
Myself, I hate automatic transmissions. I never feel like I'm really in control of a car when I can't downshift.
The car I was using that had the ABS was an automatic, but my sister's winter car is manual, and I really felt safer in it.
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