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18905. wonkers2 - 3/15/2006 1:56:57 AM Toyota, in my opinion, is not a style leader. That distinction, at the moment, goes to Nissan, whose chief designer started out at GM, BTW. The new Ford Fusion/ Mercury Milan is a nice clean design, in my opinion. So is the Buick Lacrosse. If you like Toyota but want to buy American and help conserve gasoline, get a Pontiac Vibe which is built by NUMMI in Fremont, California, on the same assembly line and with the same components as the Corolla. The two are essentially the same car with a different badge. 18906. anomie - 3/15/2006 2:18:04 AM Toyota may not be the style leader. You have a good point about Nissan. Honda is out front too.
Made in America hardly matters anymore. Toyotas, Hondas and BMWs are assembled here, and many American brand cars import parts. The companies are pretty much global, aren't they? So it's mainly a job thing, and it mainly doesn't matter anymore. 18907. wonkers2 - 3/15/2006 3:28:09 AM The job thing matters a lot to GM and Ford and Chrysler workers, shareholders, engineers, managers and retirees whose pensions and health care are insecure or eliminated entirely and many of whom have been laid off. Not to mention the employees and stockholders of components companies in bankruptcy. 18908. Magoseph - 3/15/2006 10:31:07 AM Hello, everyone! 18909. alistairconnor - 3/15/2006 11:28:12 AM Hi Mago.
Might I just say that the French are leaders in car styling? I know, the world revolves around me and my perceptions...
Citroën in particular maintains its brand image with subtle references to classic past models.
The French car companies are still French -- there is an anachronistic economic nationalism in the air. By contrast, the British let it all go, and have nothing to show for it but a couple of Toyota factories. 18910. PelleNilsson - 3/15/2006 2:15:31 PM I agree about the French industry being the leader in car design. 18911. thoughtful - 3/15/2006 3:42:58 PM Yes, gm has made some moves to improve the quality of esp their buick line, but I'm not old enough to buy a buick.
And regardless of your desire to support all those workers, and granted they are only partially at fault for the mismanagement of the company assets, the fact remains that the organization was and still is entrenched in an arrogance that says it knows better what americans should drive than they do and it's going to continue to tell them.
The nature of business is those who don't serve the needs of their market are doomed to fail.
I kept a quote on my desk for years from Marshall Field as the key to customer satisfaction: "Give the lady what she wants." 18912. wonkers2 - 3/15/2006 3:58:33 PM Misjudgments yes. Arrogance no (current management).
Cars are much like wine or cheese. People like variety. One of GM's big mistakes was to think it could retain it's market share in the face of a flood of cars from all over the world. Free trade benefits most Americans, but it visits hardships on a significant number. They shouldn't be rewarded with broken promises, under-funded pensions, unfunded health care and union contracts torn up in bankruptcy proceedings while managements or take-over artists like "Fast Eddy" Lampert walk away with millions.
Moreover, I'm not sure that American workers should be expected to compete with workers in other countries who aren't paid a living wage, who work in unsafe plants which spew pollutants into the world's air and water. 18913. wonkers2 - 3/15/2006 4:02:07 PM A case can be made that the American companies gave the American customers the SUVs, trucks and muscle cars they wanted. They erred in not counting on $60 a gallon oil. I hope thoughtful buys a car that gives at least 30 miles/gallon and not a GMC Yukon or Ford Navigator or a Porsche SUV at $100,000 a copy. 18914. thoughtful - 3/15/2006 4:30:36 PM Yes, yes wonks, but you're forgetting that the auto workers have been paid excessively for years with promised benefits packages that far exceeded those of most workers and work rules that have stifled productivity and streamlined management processes. (It took Saturn skunkworks to create GM's first auto that embodied quality and customer focus, and didn't corporate try to kill them off for years by absorbing them.) Now that culture is coming back to haunt them. The mgmt took those wage increases and trotted off to washington looking for protection like the voluntary restraint agreements and fighting the very regulations that could've saved them at this point...the CAFE stds. And I disagree, as from folks i've talked to on the inside, the arrogance of gm has never left them and it's been a key driver of their corp culture still. 18915. thoughtful - 3/15/2006 4:39:43 PM And as far as american workers competing with workers in other countries, check your data. The american workers at gm and ford are competing with american workers at honda, subaru, and toyota. 18916. thoughtful - 3/15/2006 4:41:49 PM As is often the case, the other night i was up very early and flipped on tv to find a show on bravo about weird web sites. One i remembered was this one...something oddly addictive about it:
the human clock 18917. Ms. No - 3/15/2006 9:24:47 PM This is the first I'd heard of this site but it sounds like a cool idea. My friend just sent me a link to her complaint page, if you feel like helping her out by clicking her page please use the first link, if you'd rather not but still want to look at the site, use the second link.
My Friend's Complaint
Or
The Squeaky Wheel 18918. thoughtful - 3/15/2006 9:33:09 PM very cool.
I know reading about products on the web has influenced my purchase decisions. 18919. Ms. No - 3/15/2006 9:58:03 PM I know that I'm generally happy to avoid companies and products that treat my friends and aquaintences badly.
I don't shop at Sears to this day because they denied my mother a Sears card back in the 70's because she was a single mother--- even though she had perfect credit and made plenty of money to qualify. They told her to come back in with her husband. 18920. Ms. No - 3/15/2006 10:02:50 PM I should point out that it's easy for me not to shop at Sears since they mostly seem to carry poorly made crap these days. A friend of mine is a Sears devotee --- it's the only place he'll buy his underwear because of sizing --- so I've had the chance to wander through and mostly the stores look shabby and the merchandise looks equally shabby. I'm always waiting for the zombie attack when I have to go shopping with him at Sears.
There's a K-Mart store like that in Hollywood that makes me look over my shoulder too, but that's mainly because the store is mostly underground and the ceilings are kind of low. Very unsettling. Full-on zombie invasion setting. 18921. anomie - 3/15/2006 10:15:42 PM I haven't used Sears since sometime in the 80s when they remodeled their stores in such a way that I never knew how to get from one section to another without walking in a circle around walls and partitions. It just wasn't worth walking through a maze to find something.
18922. judithathome - 3/16/2006 7:45:30 AM I hate stores like that...they do it so you have to be exposed to more of their crummy merchandise. 18923. Macnas - 3/16/2006 11:47:19 AM Alistair
Renault cars are still trouble on 4 wheels when it comes to reliability, the Megan and the Laguna heve zero resale value as a result. But don't take it personally. 18924. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/16/2006 5:22:14 PM For those of you who'll be in the NYC/Southern NE area this Spring . . .
An Invitation
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