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28459. Jenerator - 7/29/2006 12:14:11 AM And wonkers2,
What about the woman whose backside was bruised from lashing? Any comment or opinion from you? 28460. anomie - 7/29/2006 12:15:54 AM Sorry. I think Christianity is just as bad as Islam, so I attack both. They are both merchants of ignorance, racism, violence, oppression. They are both liars. They are both anti-human. 28461. anomie - 7/29/2006 12:16:53 AM That is to say, Jen, I applaud your critique of Islam. We agree on something it seems. 28462. anomie - 7/29/2006 12:18:59 AM Jen,
The bible lays down drastically different punishmenst for crimes against men and women. Women always getting the short end of the stick. What of that? 28464. wonkers2 - 7/29/2006 12:49:50 AM Shameful. You have no argument with me over women's rights issues in Iran, Saudi Arabia and most other Arab countries. However, my impression is that the situation varies considerably from country to country. Worse in some, better in others such as Jordan, Egypt, Turkey perhaps? I don't consider myself an expert on women's rights in the Arab world. You and I have some important differences, however, about women's rights in the United States. However, I assume we can agree that women and men should have identical rights under the law, both here in the United States and everywhere in the world. 28465. jexster - 7/29/2006 1:06:04 AM Time for a little prophecy for Jen...
Hosea 8
Set the trumpet to your lips!
One like a vulture* is over the house of the Lord,
because they have broken my covenant,
and transgressed my law.
2Israel cries to me,
‘My God, we—Israel—know you!’
3Israel has spurned the good;
the enemy shall pursue him.
4They made kings, but not through me;
they set up princes, but without my knowledge.
With their silver and gold they made idols
for their own destruction.
5Your calf is rejected, O Samaria.
My anger burns against them.
How long will they be incapable of innocence?
6 For it is from Israel,
an artisan made it;
it is not God.
The calf of Samaria
shall be broken to pieces.*
7For they sow the wind,
and they shall reap the whirlwind.
The standing grain has no heads,
it shall yield no meal;
if it were to yield,
foreigners would devour it.
8Israel is swallowed up;
now they are among the nations
as a useless vessel.
9For they have gone up to Assyria,
a wild ass wandering alone;
28466. jexster - 7/29/2006 7:42:26 PM The CHRISTIAN Thing to Do
Shiite Pilgrimage Leads to Church
On Perilous Border, Lebanese Christians Take In Muslims 28467. Macnas - 7/31/2006 8:35:06 AM Amazing, considering the history between them.
The IDF sponsored Christian Phalangists (you'd have loved them Jen, pictures of jesus taped to the stock of their rifles) were the shooters who carried out the Sabra and Shatila massacres, while the IDF looked on.
Then again, it was Palestinians the killed, and they were never very popular in Southern Leb. especially.
28468. wonkers2 - 7/31/2006 2:00:55 PM Straw in the wind? 28469. Jenerator - 7/31/2006 2:25:45 PM Dr. Boyd is a brilliant man and one of my favorite apologists. I have put him in several links over the years in here and he has always been routinely dismissed by the naysayers (until now). 28470. Jenerator - 7/31/2006 2:33:35 PM Okay, to continue what we were talking about last week....Islam.
Christians and Jews are seens as infidels/pagans. The Muslims who say they're peaceful claim that verses are ripped out of context to support the extremists. I understand that concern, it happens to Christians all of the time. That said, the verses that our ripped out are quite different in ISlam than Christianity.
And since this is not a discussion about Christianity, I am going to stick with the Koran.
From ISlamworld.net here is a link on Christians and Jews as infidels:
The Jews have been described as those who have earned Allah's wrath. That is because they knew the truth and chose to go against it. The Christians have been described as those who have gone astray.. This is because they sought the truth but were misled from it. Now, all of them have knowledge of the truth and recognize it. However, they go against it. Therefore, they all deserve to have the wrath of Allah upon them. I call all those Jews and Christians to believe in Allah and all of His Messengers. I call upon them to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This is what they have been ordered to do in their own books.
So, not only are they infidels, but they are *disbelievers* and apostates. 28471. Jenerator - 7/31/2006 2:53:45 PM 30 signs of the Hypocrites
Falsehood and Lying
Treachery
Showing insolence and licentiousness in argumentation
Breaking one's promise
Laziness in worship
Showing off
Lack of remembrance of Allah
Hastiness in prayer
Slandering those who give themselves freely to good deeds from among the believers and the righteous
Mocking the Qur'an, the Sunnah and the Messenger, sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam
The protective oath
Disliking to spend for the sake of Allah
Desertion and abandonment of the Muslims
Originating false rumours and causing sedition
Finding fault with Allah's decree
Bringing down the honour of the righteous
Remaining away from the congregational prayer
Causing mischilef while claiming to establish peace
Outward behaviour contradicting what is in the heart
Fear of unpleasant events, incidents and happenings
False excuses
Commanding the evil and preventing the good
Tying one's hands back out of stinginess
Forgetting Allah
Denial of the promise of Allah and His Messenger
Concern for the outward appearance and neglect of the innner condition
Eloquence, long-winded speech, boasting and bragging
Lack of understanding of the religion
Not sinning in front of the people (due to fear of them) but showing boldness to Allah by committing sins in secrecy
Rejoicing at the affliction of the believers with a calamity and being saddened at their being touched by joy and pleasure
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Of particular interest to me is "lack of understanding the religion". 28472. Jenerator - 7/31/2006 2:59:28 PM Satan's Great Manipulation of the Christians
This is why Allah the Most High said, “Verily, shirk (polytheism, setting up partners with Allah) is a great injustice.” [Luqman: 33]
Allah the Most High has created his worshippers prone to recognize ugliness in expressing exaltation, glorification, sumbisiveness and humility towards king’s slaves and servants (as such actions are usually done for the king).
So what is the situation of the one who shows this type of reverence to king’s enemies? For Satan is the enemy of Allah, and the polytheist is in reality setting Satan, not Allah’s prophets and righteous servants¸ as a partner with Allah. For the prophets and righteous servants have nothing to do with those who set them as partners with Allah; they are against them and the strongest in hatred of all people towards them. The polytheists, therefore, are only setting up as partners with Allah His enemies, and equalizing between them and Allah in worship, exaltation, prostration and humility.
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Think of how this sets the Muslims against the West (we're perceived as 100% Christian. Not only does this cause great theological differences, but attitudinal differences and behavioral differences as well. Muslims are increasingly believing that we're not just infidels or pagans, but that we're bound to Satan and that any compromise or deal or negotiating with us is akin to negotiating with Satan. Think of how this affects what their children think of non-Muslims, especially Westerners or Americans.
28473. Jenerator - 7/31/2006 3:05:45 PM Following the Forefathers: A suspicion of the Polytheists.
Christians are the polytheists. 28474. Jenerator - 7/31/2006 3:16:13 PM Here we go!
Viewing ‘the other’: classification of non-Muslims under Islamic law
Obviously when a Muslim looks at the world he will see coreligionists who embrace the central tenet of Islamic faith by their recognizing that only God is to be worshipped and none other besides Him neither prophet like Jesus Christ or the prophet Muhammad or anyone or thing else. These individuals will also believe in the finality of the prophethood with the sending of the prophet Muhammad. A Muslim will also recognize that there are individuals outside of his community. There are people who adhere to other religions whether those religions Muslims would believe were originally rooted in the revelation sent by God, and subsequently corrupted only like Judaism and Christianity; or they believe that these religions have no basis from God and were invented by their peoples like the various pagan religions.
These non-Muslims according to Islamic law fall into two major categories: (1.) unbelievers with whom Muslims are at war, and (2.) unbelievers with whom Muslims have a treaty.[2]
So these are the categories of unbelievers as viewed by Islamic law. If you consider this, then we can frankly say that certain acts of violence perpetrated by Muslims against non-combatant unbelievers over the last ten or fifteen years clearly contradict Islam. It is exceedingly important that Muslims are the first and foremost to condemn and reject such actions
So why is it still happening? Why are terrorist groups spreading and taking over? HEzbollah uses innocents and shields and sends bombs into civilian areas. Why are entire countries and leaders supporting HEzbollah? Are Imams speaking out against them?
Also,
So since Muslims hold the Qur’an to be God’s literal words, every Muslim would be by the very definition of fundamentalism a fundamentalist! And hence to say “Muslim fundamentalist” is a misnomer as the term fundamentalist in its original context is not really applicable as the question of the validity of the text of the Qur’an is inapplicable.
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To me, all of this demonstrates that there is a dsiscrepancy with what is written, taught and practiced.
28475. PelleNilsson - 7/31/2006 3:45:54 PM I don't think it would be too difficult to find Christian texts which express the same sentiments about Islam. 28476. Jenerator - 7/31/2006 3:55:24 PM This isn't about Christianity, Pelle. 28477. RickNelson - 7/31/2006 4:01:42 PM Check into the women spiritual leaders in Morroco. The news is that Moroccan women have been given unprecedented equality in the muslem world. Sure Wahhabism is fighting it, and only by the grace of Morocco's spiritual leader, the king does this actually stay in effect.
Islamic women in Morocco 28478. Wombat - 7/31/2006 4:02:25 PM Jen:
Wouldn't it be wiser to refer to the Koran itself, rather than interpretations written by people with an obvious axe to grind? 28479. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/31/2006 4:05:02 PM This is about Christian propaganda and Jenerator's filibuster, only finding fault with opposing religious zealotry while ignoring one's own religious flaws.
Luke 6:41-42 41 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother's eye.
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