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28632. alistairconnor - 10/30/2006 10:34:51 AM Yes Con, I'm truly proud. If your reading enables you go beyond your shallow misconceptions about our judaeo-christian heritage, I will be even prouder.
But very surprised. 28633. alistairconnor - 10/30/2006 10:42:18 AM I don't see where anything in Joshua incites modern Jews, or particularly Christians against those of other religions in any way whatsoever.
Well, shall we compare apples to apples?
Either the Old Testament is relevant to modern Christians and Jews, or it isn't. Likewise for the Koran and modern Moslems, let's avoid double standards.
But I really haven't started looking at Joshua yet. Would you care to respond to my posts on Genesis Message # 28603 and Numbers Message # 28604, specifically relating to your suggestion :
Let's discuss the " verses of Christianity or Judaism" that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths. 28634. jexster - 10/30/2006 7:13:38 PM 10/30/06 Islamic Fascisms?
Defense and the National Interest
By Ismael Hossein-Zadeh.
Authoritarianism comes in many forms, each presenting its unique threat to democracy. If, as Sun Tzu insisted, knowing the threat is half the battle (knowing oneself is the other), it is important to understand their similarities and their differences. 28635. jexster - 10/30/2006 7:14:28 PM President George W. Bush and the neoconservative handlers of his administration have added a new bogeyman to their long and evolving list of enemies: "Islamic fascism," also called "Islamofascism." This wonton flinging of the word "fascism" in reference to radical movements and leaders of the Muslim world, however, is not only inaccurate and oxymoronic, but it is, indeed, also ironic. Of course, it is also offensive and inflammatory and, therefore, detrimental to international understanding and stability. 28636. concerned - 10/30/2006 8:49:03 PM Re 28633 -
I'm afraid it is you who are attempting to compare apples and oranges by conflating Biblical narrative with inflammatory Koranic and Hadithic texts.
With your making such errors as the above, I have doubts that you can even even rise from your demonstrated complete lack of comprehension to shallow misconceptions. Unless you can do better/be more honest, it's pointless to continue this discussion. 28637. alistairConnor - 10/30/2006 11:52:49 PM I'm disappointed that you have conceded so quickly, by refusing to discuss the verses of Christianity or Judaism that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths. (Genesis: Message # 28603 and Numbers: Msg num=28604> were merely my opening shots). 28638. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:26:13 AM Re. Genesis, Numbers:
These, again, are narratives and apply only to the ancient Hebrews from a time approximately 4000 years ago. You are not showing a trace of intelligence, honesty or proportion.
Why not try to find something, anything, in Judaism or Christianity that is at all comparable to the strictures imposed by modern Islam on its believers?
You have done nothing to make your point so far. 28639. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:27:11 AM 'almost 4000 years ago' 28640. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:34:08 AM AC - however much contempt you may have for Jewish religious beliefs and attitudes keep in mind that they are the polar opposites of the more militant Muslims wrt proselytization. 28641. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:56:57 AM Btw, that 'fish' in the barrel you thought you were shooting - that was your foot.
I don't know how you can think pointing to individual instances of questionable behavior over 3000 years ago in the history of the Jews proves anything in today's world, because every thing you have presented so far has not much bearing on Jewish and none at all on Christian attitudes towards those of other faiths today, and none of it is at all prescriptive in the sense that the relevant passages in the Kor(a)n and Hadiths are. 28642. alistairConnor - 10/31/2006 1:02:31 AM You set the goalposts, Concerned.
You didn't think I could find "verses of Christianity or Judaism that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths."
Now you want to move them.
Am I surprised? 28643. concerned - 10/31/2006 1:12:08 AM You didn't find any, in fact, that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths.
Be so good as to note the present tense, please. That means now, not 1500 years ago. Not 3000 years ago. Now. 28644. concerned - 10/31/2006 1:13:45 AM How's your foot feeling with all those holes in it, AC? 28645. concerned - 10/31/2006 1:17:42 AM I have to concede that you have definitely found examples where the Hebrews have mistreated others in such ways in the past. My apologies if you misunderstood what I was asking. 28646. Jenerator - 10/31/2006 2:13:05 AM Jexster,
28624. jexster - 10/30/2006 4:41:33 AM
No he doesn't Jen...that's a lie.
No - *who* doesn't? Doesn't what?
I am not going to keep posting the same material that proves it
For as many sites as you link, I can find equal number that prove what I saw. So....?
I have done it several times now
I have provided links as well.
The issue (in a nutshell) is that you are regurgitating bottom feeder swill that right wing Jews have passed off as authentic muslim scholarship
Who are these Jewish sources that I have been sourcing and who are these operatives I have been talking to? Are the Muslims I know all covert Jewish spies?
You are republishing lies and bigotry
What lies?? The principle of nasikh exists as do the bloody verses. You're mental, jexster.
28647. jexster - 10/31/2006 2:20:04 AM That spew, that nonsense, that bile is of Kosher origin you moron 28648. jexster - 10/31/2006 2:20:28 AM God would like to thank you for your belief and patronage. In order to serve your needs, God asks that your take a few moments to answer the following questions. There is no need to disclose your name or address, unless you prefer a direct response by mail.
1. How did you find out about God?
__ Newspaper __ Other Book
__ Television __ Divine Inspiration
__ Website __ Near Death Experience
__ Bible __ Word of mouth
__ Torah __ Other (specify):_________
2. Are you currently using any other source of inspiration in addition to God? Please check all that apply.
__ Tarot __ Lottery
__ Horoscope __ Television
__ Fortune Cookie __ Ann Landers
__ Self-help Book __ Sex
__ Biorhythms __ Alcohol/drugs
__ Mantras __“I’m feeling lucky” Google search
__ Insurance Policy __ Other:______________
3. God employs a limited degree of Divine Intervention to preserve the balanced level of felt presence and blind faith. Which would your prefer (circle one).
a. More Divine Intervention
b. Less Divine Intervention
c. Current level of Divine Intervention is just right
d. Don’t know
4. God also attempts to maintain a balanced level of disasters and miracles. Please rate on a scale of 1–5 his handling of the following
(1= unsatisfactory, 5= excellent)
a. Disasters (flood, famine
earthquakes, war) 1 2 3 4 5
b. Miracles (rescues, spontaneous
remissions, sports upsets) 1 2 3 4 5
5. Do you have any additional comments or suggestions for improving the quality of God’s services?
28649. Jenerator - 10/31/2006 2:26:49 AM And again ..the proof is not only in Muslim scripture but in praxis
Proof that there is a violent aspect to Islam? I don't disagree! Tell me about the praxis of today
...which when contrasted with Christain history of Jewish and Muslim persecutions, admits of no dispute either
The Christians and Jews aren't strapping bombs onto our pregnant mothers and blowing themselves up. They aren't disguising themselves as civilians and walking into markets with other Christians and Jews and killing all of them, either.
Of course not.
28650. Jenerator - 10/31/2006 2:29:10 AM Nasikh
and more nasikh 28651. Jenerator - 10/31/2006 2:40:27 AM The biggest lie about Koran ever told
Today's Islamic scholars have a pleasure in showing the "NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION VERSE" (Koran 2:256). But these Islamic scholars who accuse the critics of using koranic verses out of context must check out the context of this verse. This is exactly what we will do:
But before we go into this we have to see when and why a verse was said by Muhammad (1) and does he contradict his earlier verses in that process (2)? In that case what happens (3)?
To know why and when Muhammad said some thing as a revelation (1) we need to make use of the chronology of the koranic verses obtained from the Hadiths and Siras, and the tafsir will also help us in this issue. Though there is no standard and accepted chronology of the Koran.
The Egyptian standard edition gives the following chronological order of the Suras, with the verses said to date from a different period given in parentheses:
XCVI, LXVIII (17-33, 48-50 Med.), LXXIII (10 f., 20 Med.), LXXIV, I, CXI, LXXXI, LXXXVII, XCII, LXXXIX, XCIII, XCIV, CIII, C, CVIII, CII, CVII, CIX, CV, CXIII, CXIV, CXII, LIII, LXXX, XCVII, XCI, LXXXV, CVI, CI, LXXV, XCV, CIV, LXXVII (48 Med.), L (38 Med.), XC, LXXXVI, LIV (54-6 Med.), XXXVIII, VII (163-70 Med.), LXXII, XXXVI (45 Med.), XXV (68-70 Med.), XXXV, XIX (58, 71 Med.), XX
(130 f. Med.), LVI (71 f. Med.), XXVI (197, 224-7 Med.),XXVII, XXVIII (52-5 Med., 85 during Hijrah), XVII (26, 32 f., 57, 73-80 Med.), X (40, 94-6 Med.), XI (12, 17, 114 Med.), XII (1-3, 7 Med.), XV, VI (20, 23, 91,114, 141, 151-3 Med.), XXXVII, XXXI (27-9 Med.), XXXIV (6 Med.), XXXIX (52-4 Med.), XL (56 f. Med.), XLI, XLII (23-5, 27 Med.), XLIII (54 Med.), XLIV, XLV (14 Med.), XLVI (10, 15, 35 Med.), LI, LXXXVIII,XVIII (28, 83-101 Med.), XVI (126-8 Med.), LXXI, XIV (28 f. Med.), XXI, XXIII, XXXII (16-20 Med.), LII, LXVII, LXIX, LXX, LXXVIII, LXXIX, LXXXII, LXXXIV, XXX (17 Med.), XXIX (1-11 Med.), LXXXIII Hijrah, II (281 later), VIII (30-6 Mec.), III, XXXIII, LX, IV, XCIX, LVII, XLVII (13 during Hijrah), XIII, LV, LXXVI, LXV, XCVIII, LIX, XXIV, XXII, LXIII, LVIII, XLIX, LXVI, LXIV, LXI, LXII, XLVIII, V, IX (128 f. Mec.), CX.
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