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29158. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:18:02 AM It is NOT like saying the Redeemer needed to be Redeemed
That makes no sense
It is saying something about the Redemption itself and because that is a Mystery no human words can capture, all attempts to understand are the very stuff of a life of faith
The Doctrine of the Immaculate conception is about Jesus not about Mary 29159. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:18:10 AM Your're jumping to faulty conclusions based on emotion. There is absolutely, positively NO scriptural evidence to suggest that Mary was sinless. None.
29160. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:19:22 AM The Doctrine of the Immaculate conception is about Jesus not about Mary
Baloney! It's about Pius declaring Mary has sinless. and a Virgin till death.
29161. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:19:29 AM That's what we believe...
You asked
I told you ..I think fairly accurately
Gnite
I must rest for the Great Depression of George Herbert Hoover Bush consumeth me 29162. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:20:30 AM Wabbit,
This is the kind of scenario Protestants and Catholics have been having for centuries.
I just want Jexster to support the Church's stance with scripture - the primary source of the faith itself, and he cannot. 29163. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:20:52 AM Baloney???
It is what I said it is...that's not "baloney" ...that is a fact.
You may think the belief itself is "baloney" without warrant in Scripture, the Church believes otherwise 29164. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:21:02 AM Nite 29165. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:21:18 AM Goodnight Jexster. 29166. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:22:04 AM the Church believes otherwise
There is division within the Church over this!
29167. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:22:07 AM I just want Jexster to support the Church's stance with scripture - the primary source of the faith itself, and he cannot.
I just did. Jenerator rejects the interpretation of Scripture but that doesn't make it any less Scriptural 29168. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:24:05 AM So if the scripture says, "And the day shall be dark" is that proof that Mary was without sin?
You haven't shown me ONE iota of proof. All of the scriptures you posted do not claim she was sinless.
Your own scriptural 'evidence' doesn't support you!!! 29169. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:24:49 AM That Jenerator rejects Scripture...is a matter of concern to her not to the Church which believes differently and has for nearly 2000 years
To say there is no Scriptural foundation to the Church's belief is a lie..just as it would be for me to say a particular belief of Jen's has no Scriptural basis...
She may be wrong...or not..that is a matter of Faith 29170. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:24:58 AM "And we shall call it Ebenezer."
Voila! Proof that Mary was without sin! 29171. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:25:16 AM I have said all there is to say on the matter 29172. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:26:15 AM I have explained the doctrine and the Scriptural basis of it.
There is nothing left to say 29173. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:26:43 AM Lt 4:18 They hunt our steps, that we cannot go in our streets: our end is near, our days are fulfilled; for our end is come
Here, the 'interpretation' claims that Mary remained a virgin despite having other children with her husband. 29174. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:28:13 AM Jexster,
You haven't proved the Church's stance on Mary. Even if we squint and hild it far away, it does not say what you want it to say.
We should respect Mary and the fact that she was chosen by God to birth Christ. We should not, however, elevate her to the level of Christ and attribute things that are not evidenced in the scripture. 29175. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:31:03 AM Christian belief holds that every human being through faith and through baptism is freed from sin - original sin and personal sin - through the grace of Jesus Christ. Roman Catholic Christians simply claim that Mary was the first one to whom this was done. 29176. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:32:18 AM I've quoted the Church's teaching on the Immaculate Conception verbatim.....It is what it is. It is as I have said 29177. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:35:14 AM If anyone doubts this, read John Paul's Redemptoris Mater and "prove" me wrong about what the Church teaches on the subject
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