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46740. judithathome - 11/23/2016 12:06:38 AM (would) 46741. iiibbb - 11/23/2016 4:14:33 AM I think it's a trap.
if one invokes Nazis... "people" think gas chambers.... if there are no gas chambers, the comparison falls flat to "people" who think that Nazis mean gas chambers.
So one has to be careful about invoking Nazis when describing Trump. I'm not saying let Trump do or be who he wants. I am saying one has to be very careful how one frames what's going on. Because "people" don't like civil disobedience, disorder, and revolution; they think it doesn't affect them.
They are wrong of course, but there it is. 46742. judithathome - 11/23/2016 7:36:29 AM I don't think we need to assume that Nazis only mean gas chambers...there was a hell of a lot more before that was a bit more subtle.
If anyone needs to brush up on it, just sit back and watch the Trump presidency as it "evolves". 46743. iiibbb - 11/23/2016 2:59:28 PM I'm suggesting to you... people like my mom, and others I know... they do not see the parallels to now and Germany.
Nazis to them mean gas chambers.
Trump may be as bad, but his methods could very well be entirely different. May be entirely economical.
Democrats gotta play this smart. 46744. judithathome - 11/23/2016 10:07:55 PM Well, if they do, they need to stop listening to those who claim "Everytime you hear the word NAZI, the person who SAYS it loses the argument."
That axiom might have been true at one time but these days? It is patently false.
Just look at the Neo-Nazi (Alt-Right) yahoos who are following Trump...much less the ones who are his closest advisors! 46745. judithathome - 11/23/2016 10:12:39 PM And by the way...I am probably older than your mom and I see this whole thing very clearly...when you have people saying "Trump Heil!" it is the beginning of the end.
Remember HISTORY? That niggling little thing that keeps track? 46746. iiibbb - 11/23/2016 11:03:16 PM I respect your opinion obviously.
And know that I am not discounting it. My wife and kids and a whole side of my family is Jewish.
I'm already freaked out about losing my job because this administration is about as anti-environment as you can get.
There's a lot of amplification and suppression of information going on...
In the slightly more optimistic news department... check out the first 3 stories
46747. judithathome - 11/23/2016 11:29:16 PM Trust me, we have a President Elect now that has no idea what the Constitution means....he has never read it and wouldn't understand if he HAD.
He thinks he has/soon will attain Tzar status when he is sworn in...he bragged years ago that were he to run for and win the Presidency, he would be the first President to MAKE MONEY off doing so. 46748. arkymalarky - 11/23/2016 11:46:30 PM I'm encouraged by several things. First of all, I agree with Obama, who's the smartest president certainly in my lifetime and possibly since FDR, in my opinion, that it isn't the end until it's the end. I like the fact that he's got an open line of communication with Trump. Secondly, there's a lot of work being done already on the foundational level in the media and in the Democratic Party that is going to help tremendously. Third, Trump is as far short of any kind of mandate as any president in history, and people are being very Vigilant about every move he makes. Not just the press and Democrats, but Republicans like McCain and other moderates. Support of white nationalists is not going to help him unite the rest of the country behind him either. It's very polarizing, but it's also a huge negative that's going to cost him support among people who voted for him because they didn't like Hillary or they thought he'd bring jobs to the struggling rust belt or whatever marginal reasons they voted for him. Most people who voted for him in Arkansas I know thought he was an idiot, but they were so sure that Hillary was going to take away their guns and make abortion free and available for all, they voted like they always do.
The thing that bothers me the most right now is the Republican majority in both houses, and my only hope there is that if they overplay their hand that will get adjusted in 2018 post haste. That's happened to Democrats and Republicans alike when they've overreached. It's not like we haven't had that kind of situation multiple times.
My bogeyman is a naziesque move to commit some newsworthy act and blame it on opponents, using such an event to the same effect. Hate and fear are despicable human qualities, but they are very effective for herding masses. When it comes down to it, we've got to count on those institutions we've always counted on to get us through tough times. There's nothing else to do, and I'm certainly going to enjoy my personal circumstances regardless. I don't intend to live this 24/7. I'm still working on things that I was working on before, but I'm not going to be wallowing in this like I have for the past month. Life is too short, and if it's not helpful it's a waste of time. I'd rather be doing other things. 46749. judithathome - 11/24/2016 12:00:04 AM Hate and fear are despicable human qualities,
Yes but they are what seems to be running this country right now. 46750. judithathome - 11/24/2016 12:06:23 AM Well, keep us posted on the grandbaby, at least! 46751. arkymalarky - 11/24/2016 1:16:07 AM "Yes but they are what seems to be running this country right now"
They can be, but if you look at why most people voted for Trump based on polls they really weren't in this election. I read an interesting article but after the election about Carrier employees in Ohio voting for Trump because he said he'd bring their jobs back. Everyone knows it's not going to happen, apparently except the Carrier employees, but people's thinking along those lines is so simplistic. It amazed me how basicly people were thinking about it that I talked to personally. 46752. arkymalarky - 11/24/2016 1:17:08 AM And that gets to big part of the Clinton campaign's problem. People need simple messages that they can remember. Obama may have elaborated for people who were paying attention, but his basic message was very simple and positive. 46753. arkymalarky - 11/24/2016 1:27:47 AM If you look at what happened in this election, considering the popular vote being overwhelmingly in Hillary's favor, the DNC has to take a lot of responsibility. If the Democratic party does not get its shit together, they're going to be in deep doo-doo. If they do, they can do very well in the future. They may not do well in the South and fly over country, but where the vast population of the country is they can continue to improve. They're far more unified than the Republican party is right now. They just don't have a unified simple message for voters. 46754. iiibbb - 11/24/2016 2:49:13 AM I'd love to crawl into my personal space and ignore it, but it's a coin flip whether I'll still have a job in 3-5 months. 46755. iiibbb - 11/24/2016 2:52:19 AM Re- Democrats and a unified message. I worry about that because
A- they're kind of full of themselves
B- a progressive on my newsfeed essentially called Bernie Sanders a racist today. I mean, the inability of enough of them to temper their outrage against would-be allies is a problem. 46756. arkymalarky - 11/24/2016 4:35:23 AM Most Republicans aren't thrilled that white nationalists are acting like they just won the election either. You have to deal with the Extremes in any political organization, and that kind of stuff is not really as important as what the party leadership is doing. 46757. arkymalarky - 11/24/2016 4:37:53 AM When the market crashed in 08 my dad lost $300,000 overnight of his retirement. I was more worried than he was. He's been without before and he said he could do that again and he said he just grabbed walden and read it and lived his life. My problem is my apocalyptic fantasies. But the solution is the same. Live my life. 46758. arkymalarky - 11/24/2016 4:41:14 AM Howard Dean caught a lot of flack for his 50-state strategy, and I found a lot of the blue dog Democrats Beyond annoying. I was glad to see blanch lincoln hit the pasture even though her seat went Republican. But the fact is he was right. I've organized enough at the local and state level to know that you have to hold your nose and find what you have in common with people in order to get things moving forward. 46759. winstonsmith - 11/26/2016 9:49:34 PM I have been thinking a lot about the election and all the what-ifs.
1. Would Benie have beaten Trump. My guess - probably. It would have been a very different election (commie Bernie vs billionaire Trump) and different states would have been in play. I am guessing, after seeing the results of the election, that maybe people would have been unfazed by the commie/socialist rhetoric and supported Bernie. it seems like people were willing to overlook anything this year. I think I was wrong about Bernie's viability this election cycle, especially against Trump. But still, who knows. I think a lot of Republicans were motivated by 8 years of Obama, just like we were by Bush.
2. Would Clinton have won if she had picked Bernie as her VP? My guess- maybe. Bernie could have helped her with millinials and in the rust belt. Hard to say If it would have been enough.
3. Did Comey cost Clinton the election? MY guess, maybe. It's hard to say how much that actually mattered to the voters in the rust belt. Maybe the combination of no Comey antics and picking Bernie for VP would have been enough?
4. Could Bernie have won the primary if he had gone full out against Clintion from day one of the primary? Boy, it would have gotten nasty. They would have both gone nuclear and Clinton would have been even more damaged. I think maybe the only way he would have actually won the primary was if Comey would have done his thing earlier and helped Bernie instead of trump.
5. Is the recount a good idea? - I guess, why not, but in the end it could just bolster Trump by proving that he won.
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