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563. CalGal - 2/1/2000 12:54:18 AM I see no reason why we shouldn't have banning in our arsenal. I also expect that some policy issues will cause heated discussion, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. That's why we have the policy thread. 564. IrvingSnodgrass - 2/1/2000 12:55:17 AM Ace:
Yes, Irv, your position is that enforcing a "backdoor" rule is silly because it's... silly.
Oh yeah: And it's also "nonsensical."
I never said either of those things. What do you gain by making up words I never said?
I said we should not be policing other sites because it's not our job. Our job is to take care of the Mote.
Which brings up another point... who is going to do all this deleting and banning and re-banning? I know our current moderator isn't interested in doing it, and we don't even have a gatekeeper.
It isn't easy to find volunteers willing to spend time and effort on this site and willing to put themselves on the firing line to boot. 565. CalGal - 2/1/2000 1:01:25 AM IN ANOTHER FORUM of course, but let's not quibble, right?
Right. We determined at the time we started that use of information learned from that person in an online forum was not a violation. How can someone know what personal data is verboten and what isn't? For example, what if I had referred to your husband's occupation and you got fussed? I'm supposed to know, to keep track whether you mentioned something as basic as family background here or in the Fray?
I remember scoffing at your perpetual use of non sequiturs and bringing up something that I thought was public information as an utterly random selection to mock your tendency to do this. There was no malice in the selection per se.
As I said, all you have to do is request that people don't refer to the online information again. In my case, I won't bring up what I think you were talking about again. However, I don't know for sure, and god knows you've gone through a lot of personal data at the Fray and brought up some subset of it here. This will probably happen again--if not with me, than someone else. 566. IrvingSnodgrass - 2/1/2000 1:04:05 AM Niner
Wrt to your post in the Suggestions thread (why can't everyone keep this all here?):
If Jay were to out cazart's personal info, it would not be equivalent to the pic on Cellar's site.
Since Jay is an "official" of the Mote, participants here can reasonably expect that any information shared with those in power will be kept confidential.
But the point is moot, since Jay has not and would not (by his own admission) reveal any personal information. 567. CalGal - 2/1/2000 1:05:24 AM BTW, I agree with Ace. Cellar's post should be deleted and while I don't know that he should be banned, I wouldn't object to his suspension. That was shitty. 568. Adrianne - 2/1/2000 1:05:36 AM
"????"
"I remember scoffing at your perpetual use of non sequiturs and bringing up something that I thought was public information as an
utterly random selection to mock your tendency to do this. There was no malice in the selection per se. "
No, I was making fun of YOUR use of non sequiteurs, idiot.
Hell, I won't even bother refuting your last post - it's a lie from start to finish. Not unexpected, lying's your style.
Hey, take it to the playpen, Melba! I'm trying to discuss something with wabbit and the rest of the crowd. Your obsession with me is getting really, really old.
569. AceofSpades - 2/1/2000 1:09:11 AM
Irv:
You said:
I never said any such thing. I oppose this silliness on the grounds of principle, not because it would be "hard to enforce." It is simply not our job to enforce our rules elsewhere on the web. Period.
So, what does this translate to? "It is not our job to enforce our rules elsewhere BECAUSE it's not our job. It is silly because it is silly on principle."
As for the additional work necessary (Jay's point):
No one need patrol TT for violations. 1) if we pass a no-backdoor rule, it will all but stop, and 2) if it doesn't stop, CalGal or I will find it-- no need for Wabbit or Alistair to be involved at this stage.
If a banning is necessary, that does require work. But, as I've said, *I* can't get into the Mote with any other name but my own.
570. Indiana Jones - 2/1/2000 1:12:31 AM I'll be happy to join the Mote SS.
RS probably would too. All of chaotic evil people secretly love it when we get to enforce law and order. 571. AceofSpades - 2/1/2000 1:13:33 AM
It isn't easy to find volunteers willing to spend time and effort on this site and willing to put themselves on the firing line to boot.
The firing line? Jesus, I don't understand all this handwringing.
It's a simple rule. It is as EASY AS PIE not to violate it. If someone DOES violate it, why can't we just BAN that someone without crying about it endlessly?
You seem to think that access to the Mote is more important than privacy. I don't. I'd much rather be banned from the Mote than have someone broadcast my personal information publicly. 572. AceofSpades - 2/1/2000 1:13:54 AM
Indy:
Heh, heh. 573. AceofSpades - 2/1/2000 1:14:13 AM
We'll be the C.I.A-holes. 574. PsychProf - 2/1/2000 1:14:50 AM Sorry...I should have posted this here...
Cellar...did Cal pose with the understanding that the pic
would appear on a website...did you ask her
permission?...I don't give a crap about the law here, I only
care about your perceived personal responsibilty. Please
elucidate. 575. CalGal - 2/1/2000 1:16:30 AM Ad,
I'm not obsessed. I thought I was explaining. As I just said, I will try not to mention any past information out of courtesy.
But I was also trying to explain the previous discussion on the larger point.
If you have revealed the information online--if you yourself have made the information public and the information is not only available, but linked to your identity, then it is no longer private information.
Here is the RoE definition:
- Has been revealed with the individual's knowledge and explicit consent
- Has been explicitly linked to the individual's online identity
You revealed the information yourself, and the information is explicitly linked to your online identity. If, otoh, you were the subject of a magazine article under your real name but never linked it in or mentioned that you were Sally Spitnpolish, then no one could link it in and say it was you.
If you have made information public that you would now rather keep private, you have every right to request that people refrain from mentioning it. If someone continually brought up this information for no other reason other than to harass you, that can be considered abusive.
I don't see anything wrong with that policy, and I think any change to restrict it to this forum would be very problematic.
This subject was covered at great length in the previous discussion, so I was just summarizing the conclusion.576. AceofSpades - 2/1/2000 1:17:05 AM
Here's the math:
Assholes like Cellar will make it hard for Wabbit.
So-- how about this: Let's ban assholes like Cellar who persist in revealing personal info. No more hard work for Wabbit, ay?
I am confident Cellar would not return, and if he did, he could only hide his ID for three seconds. How long could he possibly go without mentioning his book, "Open Remainder Bin"? 577. Cazart - 2/1/2000 1:17:40 AM IOW, the 'rules' apply to others. Not CalGal. 578. Indiana Jones - 2/1/2000 1:21:46 AM Or how much he wants to bonk Jude Law. 579. KuligintheHooligan - 2/1/2000 1:25:10 AM I would support the following:
If there is some personal information that has been voluntarily revealed by a Motie, but in time that person no longer wants that information revealed, and states that clearly, and THEN someone reveals it, ban them.
It seems clear that CalGal willingly had her picture taken but didn't know it would end up on a website. Then it did, and then she asked that it not be hotlinked. At that point, her wishes should be respected, out of common courtesy.
If for some odd reason I didn't want anybody new to the Mote to know that my first name is Victor, and I asked that my first name not be revealed here, then it shouldn't be revealed. Regardless of whether or not I had willingly revealed it early.
The problem, of course, is keeping track of these things and being aware of the new wishes by each individual. But I don't think it is beyond the realm of the Mote "authorities" to be allowed to make the determination if malice was intended in revealing said personal data. And it seems clear to me that, if a person asks that said date not be revealed, and someone goes ahead and does it anyway, that "malice" is present. And hence bannable. 580. Adrianne - 2/1/2000 1:25:48 AM
Stop it.
You are obsessed.
I have virtually stopped posting on this site because you reply to EVERYTHING THAT I POST as if it was directed at you, never mind whether you had participated in the conversation previously, never mind that you have nothing to add that isn't personal nastiness, never mind that you post...yes, non sequiteurs.
I avoid you. I ignore you. I (have, up to recent events) refrained from insulting you and despite the temptation to do otherwise, I haven't commented on this latest brouhaha that you (colour me shocked) have miraculously found yourself in the middle of.
Just shut the eff up, why don't you? 581. IrvingSnodgrass - 2/1/2000 1:27:34 AM Ace:
You seem to think that access to the Mote is more important than privacy.
Hahaha. Surely you realize I've been one of the most outspoken advocates of privacy concerns in our forum since early days at the old place. I was instrumental in getting the bosses there to agree to the privacy rule (which was at that time unique to online forums).
You either fail to see my point or intentionally avoid it. No sweat. I'm sure there are others who understand what I'm saying. 582. AceofSpades - 2/1/2000 1:32:45 AM
"You either fail to see my point or intentionally avoid it."
Your point? Your "point," Irv, was proving your position by merely restating it ("It's not our job... because it's a matter of principle").
You also don't want to ban people because it puts Wabbit on the "firing line." It also takes work, apparently, to the job (enforcing privacy) which you admit is necessary; you feel it requires much, much to work to extend the privacy rule to Table Talk.
If there are rhetorical fireworks somewhere I'm missing out on, please point me to them-- I like fireworks.
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