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917. Indiana Jones - 2/22/2000 5:34:38 AM Personally, I thought Pelle threatened Ace with physical violence. First the icicle remark, then vague allusions to a chainsaw. 918. ChristiPeters - 2/22/2000 5:37:06 AM Ace (905) - I am a slow typer and started that post about 10 posts ago. My definition of abuse is not that silly. So, no, I don't think it is abuse to "... accuse Ohio of disgusting hackery and disingenousness?" or call CalGal "a lousy Mom", or call me that, etc.
So far, The Mote has addressed the few incidents of what I would call "abuse" just fine. This is not kindergarten. There may have been misses I am not aware of as I haven't been around much lately.
CalGal (909) - Private info. I mean private info. I have talked about my daughter - that makes it open info. I have NOT said her real name or my real name or the name of where I work - that is private info.
919. PincherMartin - 2/22/2000 5:37:07 AM Indiana --
An example of the "revealed" personal info thing happened to me recently on TableTalk. One poster there kept bringing up her father whenever McCain or Bob Kerrey was mentioned. Her father had been in the service, yada, yada, yada. Finally, I teed off on her father (not too bad...just said it was lucky for the Viet Cong her father wasn't involved in that war) and another poster said I was being horrible.
That's pretty funny.
But it's also true. Everyone of us (well, most of us) has gotten riled up and resorted to using personal info that was revealed in this forum (sometimes to personal info not revealed in this forum). Sometimes this information was used in pretty horrible ways (references to Cig's illness, etc). In general, however, I don't think of any of these cases as needing supervision or a command decision unless the offending party has little other purpose to his on-line existance other than to stalk, harass, mislead, etc. But there are special cases. In all of these cases, I would rely on the decisions of our leaders, with minimal guidance from the mob. (It's never too good an idea to let the leaders become too separated from the mob.)
920. AceofSpades - 2/22/2000 5:37:45 AM
That's true.
Waaaaaaaaabit-- PELLE THREATENED TO SODOMIZE ME WITH A FROZEN SPEAR!!!
And then he THREATENED TO RAVAGE MY "LANDSCAPE" WITH A CHAINSAW!!!!
921. PelleNilsson - 2/22/2000 5:38:02 AM Let me make a somewhat more serious observation. Let us divide the Motiers into "meek ones" and "tough ones". This is not a value judgement, and there is a wide gray zone. But I must say I have seldom, very seldom, seen a "meek one" being the subject of abuse, and, in the rare case it has happened, a host of Motiers has lept out to denounce such a thing.
In other words, abuse is directed at people who can take it, not at the defenseless ones. We are not complete morons in the way we interact.
922. ChristiPeters - 2/22/2000 5:39:24 AM clarification - "I have talked about my daughter - that makes it open info"
It is open info that I have a girl child and that I am her Mom - general stuff, not specific stuff, certainly not ANY personal info (specific or not) that I have not revealed HERE in The Mote. 923. Seguine - 2/22/2000 5:40:08 AM "I also don't see why you think that the present situation is so difficult to "ride herd" on. We've only had a very few privacy violations, and there haven't been any situations of unusual abuse that I remember."
Ah. You'll have to forgive me, then, if I entrust the memory--and the interpretation--of "unusual abuse" to others.
924. AceofSpades - 2/22/2000 5:40:15 AM
Ban PelleNilsson
In your heart, you know it's the right thing to do.
Paid for by the Committee to Keep Godless Boozing Foreigners away from Decent American Citizens 925. Seguine - 2/22/2000 5:40:46 AM With each of your objections you clarify the need for a barrier to the use of personal information as I've specified. For instance:
"Your policy gives people a pass to release what personal information they want, and then complain when it isn't used to the purpose they intended."
Given that quite a lot of information has been released in this group over the last several years, under a wide variety of circumstances not always under the control of the people to whom it pertains; given that new members, who don't know this info, are nominally invited to participate, and that us pissing on each others' personal data signals a distinctly out-of-control, excessively personal hostile environment; given that whole threads exist in which people expect to be able to trade personal info on a friendly basis; given that an enjoinder against abuse ALREADY EXISTS; why in heaven's name shouldn't people have a right to complain about using personal info to insult, harass, abuse?
I simply think such complaints should be accorded legitimacy at the outset, in the RoE, as a means of limiting their necessity. By your interpretation, the right to scour Home and Garden for personal details, to be used nastily later on, should be enshrined as a right.
926. Seguine - 2/22/2000 5:41:11 AM Look at it this way: you revere the right to certain kinds of nods to privacy. You know very well, as do we all, that our rl ids and other identifying info CAN be located offsite, surmised, gossiped about and discovered by other means. But using that info in this forum is prohibited. I could argue as Jay has, that anonymity is an illusion, or as A-5 has, that to the extent it isn't an illusion it can be hidden behind to cause strife. But I don't: I grant you (and others here who also want it) your nod to "privacy". It doesn't matter whether I think you "deserve" the right. Likewise, it matters not one iota whether you think a hypothetical Cig "deserves" to be free of jibes about his illness. What matters is what promotes the interests of the forum while maintaining room for heated debate. I believe my proposal does this. Your interpretive latitude re the current rules, I believe, shortchanges the forum. And I would note this: Cazart firmly agrees with you.
Don't you think it's time for slightly higher standards than Cazart prefers?
927. PincherMartin - 2/22/2000 5:43:52 AM Message # 924
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!! 928. CalGal - 2/22/2000 5:45:19 AM Christi,
Thanks, that's what I thought you meant. I agree with your position. 929. CalGal - 2/22/2000 5:46:14 AM Ace,
That's pretty funny. 930. AceofSpades - 2/22/2000 5:49:38 AM
Famous Foreigner Roberto Benigni says:
"Ban thees disgusting sodomaniacal Swedish person already. Ace's posts warm de heart of this old Italian stereotype. Let us ban dis Pelle pezzanovante, and then let us burn his house down and sell his seester into white slavery."
In your heart, you know it's the right thing to do.
931. PelleNilsson - 2/22/2000 5:53:01 AM Ace
Uncle! You are better at this game. I still have your Insult Primer on my disk and I wait for an opportunity to publish it. Which is of course another invasion of your privacy.
Ban Ace!! He has hurt my delicate Herringista feelings. He has heaped abuse on me. He has employed ethnic slurs. Please help me! 932. Seguine - 2/22/2000 5:54:02 AM Ace, as usual, you mislead others as to what I have said.
"If you're not going to get "exercised" when such "personal information" is used to "attack" Niner, Cal, and I, when *will* you become exercised? Only when such information is used to attack yourself or people you have greater empathy for?"
See my response to Dantheman in Message # 892:
DMan: "To take another example which occurred some time ago, in the middle of a discussion with Ace, I told him to go back to abusing plaintiffs. That can be taken as insulting (and was meant to be), and was based on information posted suggesting that he is an insurance defense lawyer. Would it be permitted under your rule?"
"Sadly, no. But I trust you'd be capable of exacting as much pain without announcing what he does for a living."
933. CalGal - 2/22/2000 5:54:22 AM By your interpretation, the right to scour Home and Garden for personal details, to be used nastily later on, should be enshrined as a right.
Um. Yeah. If someone wants to, that's what it means. If you don't want people using information against you, then don't post it online.
Of course, your "scour Home and Garden" is my "reading the thread and remembering what people say", but it's the same thing in the end.
It doesn't matter whether I think you "deserve" the right.
It has nothing to do with what people deserve. It has to do with what people have a right to expect. If they don't reveal information here, I think they have a right to expect that no one else is allowed to reveal that information, either.
But if they reveal the information, then I don't see why they should complain when it is referred to again. It was their own actions that made the information available in this forum.
Don't you think it's time for slightly higher standards than Cazart prefers?
I've never particularly cared who agreed with me or not. As most people can testify. What I do care about is the reasons why people agree with me. I recall agreeing with Caz's post earlier, although I can't remember what it was about. I see no particular problems with agreeing with Caz.
For that matter, Caz agrees with you about my fell purpose in this forum. Don't you think you should have a higher standard of conspiracy theory? 934. AceofSpades - 2/22/2000 5:54:55 AM
Seg:
I considered an alternative interpretation. See subsequent post. 935. Seguine - 2/22/2000 6:01:27 AM Incidentally, now that Ace is here to spam the thread with distortions, not to mention the pretense that his hilarious repartee with the Swedish Ripper can't be identified by the moderator as a friendly exchange that requires no action on her part, I will leave this topic to its inevitable demise. 936. Cellar Door - 2/22/2000 6:01:56 AM CAZART'S DA MAN!!!!
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