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10305. concerned - 6/1/2012 11:29:58 PM So, let me get this straight - you're saying by the time Martin attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman had legally forfeited his right to self defense because he 'stalked' Martin longer than some specified length of time?
Is that what you're saying? 10306. arkymalarky - 6/1/2012 11:44:17 PM In a word? Yes!
You try to come at my home or my person as a dangerous aggressor with a loaded gun and in the course of defending myself I have the advantage I will do what it takes to remove the threat. By your actions you forfeited legal protection for "self-defense."
Do you mean to tell me you're one of those weak kneed liberals who thinks a burglar should be able to sue the homeowner for tripping over his carpet and breaking his nose? 10307. concerned - 6/1/2012 11:59:37 PM You sound close to supporting 'stand your groundism' in the case you propose for the homeowner, arky. 10308. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 12:04:03 AM I agree that Zimmerman behaved badly up until the point that Martin apparently attacked him. Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck. If not, he should have approached Martin non-confrontationally, identified himself as the block watch captain and asked where he lived (I actually don't know if he did this or not, but there's no evidence that he did). But when Martin attacked him, assuming this based on the injuries to Zimmerman's face and head and to Martin's knuckles, at that point the responsibility becomes Martin's. Martin had time to walk to the apartment, but he did not, he turned back and apparently confronted Zimmerman and then started to beat him.
My beef is less and less with Zimmerman, but remains with the DA's initial refusal to investigate. 10309. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 12:04:43 AM Ark - There's no evidence that Zimmerman displayed the gun prior to firing it in self-defense. 10310. concerned - 6/2/2012 12:20:31 AM We're someone stalking my teen son with a gun I'd hope my son got the best of him whatever it took.
I'm a believer in the saying: "Discretion is the better part of valor." here. 10311. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 1:16:58 AM That doesn't matter, Vk. In fact, IMO that makes it way worse. Had he not wanted to kill the kid, displaying it would at least give the kid options with knowledge of what he was facing.
It's my opinion that people have an inherent right to be left alone. Zimmerman violated that most basic human right all violent criminals violate.
10312. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 1:22:15 AM And Con'd, I'm not opposed to the principal of stand your ground ( castle rule wrt your home), but like most such laws it's impractically written and enforced. The female counterpart to Zimmerman in FL, for instance, sits in jail, tho evidence suggests she was in real danger of death had she not acted. 10313. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 1:28:18 AM Zimmerman used his personal PayPal account to collect $200000 in donations then lied to the judge about it. His account(s) of what happened have no credence. Since the DA blew it wrt other evidence, Zimmerman
is in deep doodoo now, IMO, no matter how closely his story matches truth (which I still don't think it does, based on the tapes, discrepancies, etc). 10314. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 1:28:22 AM Zimmerman used his personal PayPal account to collect $200000 in donations then lied to the judge about it. His account(s) of what happened have no credence. Since the DA blew it wrt other evidence, Zimmerman
is in deep doodoo now, IMO, no matter how closely his story matches truth (which I still don't think it does, based on the tapes, discrepancies, etc). 10315. judithathome - 6/2/2012 6:50:26 PM I agree that Zimmerman behaved badly up until the point that Martin apparently attacked him.
How do you know Martin "apparently" attacked him? He may have fought with him but this was after being stalked by Zimmerman and I doubt it was quietly, either...the man had a history of racist remarks. Possibly Zimmerman threw the first punch and Martin was only fighting back...no one ever answers me when I ask if MARTIN had a right to stand HIS ground.
You seem to be giving Zimmerman a lot of benefits of doubt and handing out "apparentlys" to Zimmerman left and right.
Zimmerman knew the police were on their way...any sane person would have stood down like the 911 operator told them to do. It wasn't a case of the kid breaking into Zimmerman's house...it was a case of the kid WALKING.
And you keep blaming the police for not investigating....that's something that needs looking into but we know for a fact that Zimmerman killed Martin...that is what is obvious and what needs to be sorted out now.
I think Zimmerman needs to go to jail. Period. He has shown himself to be untrustworthy since the killing and as a result, I don't believe a word he says now ABOUT the killing.
And by the way, the funeral home director said Martin had no marks on his hands. Of course, this is just a man that has worked in the funeral business most of his life so how would HE know.....
10316. judithathome - 6/2/2012 6:51:10 PM
crap...the one time I don't preview.... 10317. judithathome - 6/2/2012 6:52:09 PM
???? 10318. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 7:22:53 PM Judith - The Atlantic reports that the autopsy of Martin showed, "...broken skin on his knuckles, suggesting that he was involved in a fight before being shot and killed by George Zimmerman. According to the TV station, that and the single gun shot wound were the only injuries on his body."
And further reports, "In addition, ABC News has received a different medical report on Zimmerman that says he had a broken nose, two black eyes, and a cuts on the back of his head the day after the shooting. That report came from a family practice physician that Zimmerman sought treatment from the morning after the incident.
Combined together the new medical evidence does seem to confirm the story that Martin and Zimmerman were involved in some kind of altercation before Martin was shot, but there's still no way to know how it may have started."
This combined with the info in this IMO compelling timeline of the shooting leads me to believe that Martin likely initiated the confrontation and the ensueing fight.
I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent of wrong doing. I am not saying that Zimmerman should not be investigated and charged, quite the opposite. I am only saying that I oppose the rush to judgement I've seen from many and the accompanying reflexive partisan divide that so quickly permeated this tragedy. 10319. judithathome - 6/2/2012 7:33:18 PM Someone who would lie under oath about being destitute could lie about injuries...maybe he had a friend sock him in the face.
I just don't believe the guy...the police at the scene sent one of two ambulences called to the scene away after looking at Zimmerman...he was filmed less that 45 minutes later at the police garage while being taken into custody. He didn't looked THAT roughed up to me...granted, black eyes would have taken longer to develop but a broken nose? Are you kidding me? And a broken nose gushes blood...no blood at all on his clothes...
He could have been released by the cops, gone home, had his wife beat the crap out of him, and gone to his family doctor that morning to set the alibi that he beaten. She couldn't testify against him, after all.
I know there is a lot of supposition in what I'm saying but no more than in Zimmerman's story.
If Martin had been breaking into Zimmerman's house, I would have no problem with what happened...but he wasn't. He was free to walk the sidewalks of that apartment complex...he was there as a guest of his father. 10320. judithathome - 6/2/2012 7:34:36 PM that he was beaten... 10321. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 7:42:37 PM Well, there are obvious wounds to the back of Zimmerman's head in the police station video when he was taken out of the police car. And according to the police report, "While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head." 10322. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 7:43:43 PM Again, I am not exonerating Zimmerman, I'm only saying that this is actually much doubt about what happened and who was the attacker in the confrontation. 10323. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 7:44:04 PM this is = there is 10324. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 8:07:36 PM A good part of what makes me care about this is the blatant bias against Zimmerman shown in the images used to portray Zimmerman and Martin.
Here's the most common images used for the two:
But instead they put a middle school/Freshman photo up against a seven year old mug shot. Not good journalism.
But those are both old, the one of Zimmerman is a 2005 booking photo. Compare that with a more recent photo that was not initially used:
The picture of Martin is also old. They could have used a more recent photo such as:
or
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