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10970. PincherMartin - 6/28/2013 11:14:57 PM Crush? How can one crush somebody with mere words and arguments?
I already made reference to this fact over in The Mote Cafe, but you didn't have a problem being buddy-buddy with Ace of Spades, and that is one poster who is more than match for me in insults and online viciousness.
Why the double standard, von Kreedon? Is it some Star Trek thing? 10971. arkymalarky - 6/28/2013 11:52:04 PM I saw that judith. Duckworth is amazing! 10972. judithathome - 7/5/2013 11:26:33 PM Watching the Zimmerman trial...I have a fear that the verdict is going to be not guilty. 10973. anomie - 7/6/2013 1:42:09 AM Judith, have you seen anything that gets you beyond reasonable doubt? I think this is the perfect case for the judge to acquit before it even goes to the jury.
The med examiner today was a comedy act. 10974. judithathome - 7/6/2013 2:13:27 AM Well, he started out somewhat sane...ha!
Evidently the call for acquittal failed.
I think the entire prosecution has been a colossal joke but I think Zimmerman should go to jail.
Today they got in the fact that in his first class paper in "cop school", he commented that he was taking the course so he "hunt down" bad guys and take care of them...presumably, this is not a good thing to have as a life's goal.
Of course, this wasn't in front of the jury, it was during rebuttal to the acquittal plea. 10975. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 2:55:56 AM If he is acquitted it means it's okay to shoot people walking on the streets based solely on your own feelings of fear. 10976. anomie - 7/6/2013 4:20:42 AM I'm concerned about convicting people of murder without proof. I think there's more than sufficient doubt about what happened. I think a conviction would mean it's okay to send a person to jail to satisfy public outrage and media frenzy.
This is why I asked Judith about evidence. Just as in the trial nobody here is offering any. 10977. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:16:41 AM No, I disagree, if Zimmerman is acquitted it will be a triumph of law over emotion. The evidence, IMO, clearly shows that Trayvon knocked Zimmerman down, straddled him and beat him. Yes, Zimmerman should not have followed him, but that's not a crime. Yes, if Zimmerman had been unarmed, then in all likelihood, no one dies. But within the law he should be acquitted.
10978. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:17:12 AM That was to 109075.
10979. anomie - 7/6/2013 5:27:54 AM Good call, VK. I can't say Zimmerman is totally innocent, but 2nd degree murder is a reach on such slight evidence. 10980. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:33:31 AM We disagree on what the evidence we are aware of shows, but I think his 911 call is compelling. He followed someone for no reason, provoking a confrontation, and shot him. And I'll guarandamtee you that if Martin had a gun and killed Zimmerman, most defenders of Z would be calling for Martin to be convicted. 10981. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:36:55 AM He had been told to leave off by the 911 operator and didn't. And since he spent money he raised on himself he may not have the best representation. 10982. anomie - 7/6/2013 5:51:28 AM Assuming everything you say is true, Arky (which I doubt), I still wouldn't convict him for murder. You still haven't provided evidence for that. And if we're speculating, Let's say Zimmerman wanted to just roam the streets and kill bad guys, he could do it better than this. 10983. judithathome - 7/6/2013 6:04:29 AM Well, he was loaded for something...is it usual for someone to carry a gun loaded with hollow points? 10984. judithathome - 7/6/2013 6:47:10 AM By the way, I think the prosecution overstepped on the charge and I think they are going to lose.
I think Zimmerman is obviously guilty since the young man is dead. Therefore, I think he needs to pay in some way but I fear he's going to get off scot-free due to over-reach in the charge and a poor prosecution.
This could have been avoided...the death, I mean...had he done what they asked him to do. I don't care how menacing the kid looked, if Zimmerman hadn't left his truck, "god's will" (as he referred to it to Sean Hannity) wouldn't have been done.
10985. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:12:07 PM Judith - I agree, Manslaughter would have been a reasonable and possibly winnable charge. OTOH, just because a young man is dead does not mean that the person who killed him is guilty of anything. The young man was on top of Zimmerman and beating him, so Trayvon was not the innocent party that he was first portrayed to be. Also, following someone through your neighborhood is not a crime, no matter who suggests you not do so. 10986. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:29:34 PM I feel like I'm in bizarro world. You can't just do what Zimmerman did. I'll go a step further. Had Martin been a woman Zimmerman would be convicted. 10987. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:47:39 PM If you are stalking me and accost me I should have a right to defend myself and be "innocent." 10988. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 6:40:14 PM Arky - Stalking has a different connotation, more long term and predatory, than following. For reasons I'm not clear on, you see Zimmerman stalking Martin, while I see it as following. You see Zimmerman as accosting Martin, but the evidence has Martin accosting Zimmerman and then throwing him to the ground and beating him before being shot. If Zimmerman had not had a gun Martin would, in all likelihood, have been charged with assault and battery.
And Zimmerman, no matter what the verdict, is not getting away scot free with anything. 10989. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 7:10:09 PM It's not about Zimmerman. It's about whether people who might look scary to such cowards are allowed to walk on the street without being followed and shot. He could have at any point elected to do what he was told.
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