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10974. judithathome - 7/6/2013 2:13:27 AM Well, he started out somewhat sane...ha!
Evidently the call for acquittal failed.
I think the entire prosecution has been a colossal joke but I think Zimmerman should go to jail.
Today they got in the fact that in his first class paper in "cop school", he commented that he was taking the course so he "hunt down" bad guys and take care of them...presumably, this is not a good thing to have as a life's goal.
Of course, this wasn't in front of the jury, it was during rebuttal to the acquittal plea. 10975. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 2:55:56 AM If he is acquitted it means it's okay to shoot people walking on the streets based solely on your own feelings of fear. 10976. anomie - 7/6/2013 4:20:42 AM I'm concerned about convicting people of murder without proof. I think there's more than sufficient doubt about what happened. I think a conviction would mean it's okay to send a person to jail to satisfy public outrage and media frenzy.
This is why I asked Judith about evidence. Just as in the trial nobody here is offering any. 10977. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:16:41 AM No, I disagree, if Zimmerman is acquitted it will be a triumph of law over emotion. The evidence, IMO, clearly shows that Trayvon knocked Zimmerman down, straddled him and beat him. Yes, Zimmerman should not have followed him, but that's not a crime. Yes, if Zimmerman had been unarmed, then in all likelihood, no one dies. But within the law he should be acquitted.
10978. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:17:12 AM That was to 109075.
10979. anomie - 7/6/2013 5:27:54 AM Good call, VK. I can't say Zimmerman is totally innocent, but 2nd degree murder is a reach on such slight evidence. 10980. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:33:31 AM We disagree on what the evidence we are aware of shows, but I think his 911 call is compelling. He followed someone for no reason, provoking a confrontation, and shot him. And I'll guarandamtee you that if Martin had a gun and killed Zimmerman, most defenders of Z would be calling for Martin to be convicted. 10981. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:36:55 AM He had been told to leave off by the 911 operator and didn't. And since he spent money he raised on himself he may not have the best representation. 10982. anomie - 7/6/2013 5:51:28 AM Assuming everything you say is true, Arky (which I doubt), I still wouldn't convict him for murder. You still haven't provided evidence for that. And if we're speculating, Let's say Zimmerman wanted to just roam the streets and kill bad guys, he could do it better than this. 10983. judithathome - 7/6/2013 6:04:29 AM Well, he was loaded for something...is it usual for someone to carry a gun loaded with hollow points? 10984. judithathome - 7/6/2013 6:47:10 AM By the way, I think the prosecution overstepped on the charge and I think they are going to lose.
I think Zimmerman is obviously guilty since the young man is dead. Therefore, I think he needs to pay in some way but I fear he's going to get off scot-free due to over-reach in the charge and a poor prosecution.
This could have been avoided...the death, I mean...had he done what they asked him to do. I don't care how menacing the kid looked, if Zimmerman hadn't left his truck, "god's will" (as he referred to it to Sean Hannity) wouldn't have been done.
10985. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 5:12:07 PM Judith - I agree, Manslaughter would have been a reasonable and possibly winnable charge. OTOH, just because a young man is dead does not mean that the person who killed him is guilty of anything. The young man was on top of Zimmerman and beating him, so Trayvon was not the innocent party that he was first portrayed to be. Also, following someone through your neighborhood is not a crime, no matter who suggests you not do so. 10986. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:29:34 PM I feel like I'm in bizarro world. You can't just do what Zimmerman did. I'll go a step further. Had Martin been a woman Zimmerman would be convicted. 10987. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 5:47:39 PM If you are stalking me and accost me I should have a right to defend myself and be "innocent." 10988. vonKreedon - 7/6/2013 6:40:14 PM Arky - Stalking has a different connotation, more long term and predatory, than following. For reasons I'm not clear on, you see Zimmerman stalking Martin, while I see it as following. You see Zimmerman as accosting Martin, but the evidence has Martin accosting Zimmerman and then throwing him to the ground and beating him before being shot. If Zimmerman had not had a gun Martin would, in all likelihood, have been charged with assault and battery.
And Zimmerman, no matter what the verdict, is not getting away scot free with anything. 10989. arkymalarky - 7/6/2013 7:10:09 PM It's not about Zimmerman. It's about whether people who might look scary to such cowards are allowed to walk on the street without being followed and shot. He could have at any point elected to do what he was told. 10990. judithathome - 7/6/2013 8:01:19 PM but the evidence has Martin accosting Zimmerman and then throwing him to the ground and beating him before being shot.
From where? That's what Zimmerman and his best buddy say but there were no eye-witnesses to it as you describe it. There were people who saw them ON the ground but I don't recall anyone saying they saw the entire thing, only the "after" part when they were already on the ground. It's Zimmerman's word...to his best friend who put it in a book...that he was accosted. He also said Martin leaped out of the bushes...which is bullshit because the bushes in that complex are not even knee-high.
Why those fools let that best friend testify is beyond me...it was all hearsay. Some have said the prosecution called him because they felt the defense would have anyway...if that had happened, the prosecution could have jumped up and objected to every single thing the guy said because all he testified to were things Zimmerman had TOLD him.
Zimmerman, by warrant of the fact he was following Martin with a gun loaded with hollow point bullets and no safety on was the aggressor.
As Arky said, if that had been a woman, Zimmerman would be toast. It was dark...how could he tell if it wasn't just an athletic girl from the local high school basketball team when he started following? He couldn't...because he'd made up his mind it was a "menacing" young man...one of "those who always get away with it".
And now HE wants to become on of those who gets away with it...and probably will.
And Zimmerman, no matter what the verdict, is not getting away scot free with anything.
Really? How so? Looks pretty alive and kicking to me...
10991. Trillium - 7/7/2013 1:28:20 PM Question: what if Zimmerman had in fact been a gay man? Didn't Jeantel suggest to Trayvon that that was why the "creepy-ass cracker" was following him? (Flagrant racism and homophobia, isn't it?)
If Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman because he thought a creepy-ass cracker homosexual was "following" him, was that assault justified? Just askin'. Seems like this case is jumbling a lot of politically correct responses. 10992. arkymalarky - 7/7/2013 4:17:46 PM The point is it doesn't matter. Change anything in this scenario, change anyone into anything you want. It does not change the fact Zimmermann followed a stranger for no reason and when the Stranger turned to confront him, Zimmermn shot and killed him. 10993. arkymalarky - 7/7/2013 4:31:05 PM Deflection from the point is a standard tactic,but it doesn't change anything. It doesn't matter what Martin thought. What matters is what Zimmerman did. And if he feels compelled to stalk strangers, yet when confronted shoot to kill, he's a menace to society.
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