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11185. anomie - 7/16/2013 11:05:01 PM Arky, I give you credit for leaving open the possiblility that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Such possibility is not passing the lips of the commentators I see on CNN and MSNBC. Instead we get the clueless comments about how he was shot for no reason, etc...as Trillium pointed out. Or they say something like, "...and then a situation occurred. That Martin may have attacked and beat Zimmerman is the elephant in the room everyone wants to ignore, and it's why this is a bad test case. 11186. iiibbb - 7/16/2013 11:43:47 PM By making defensive gun use less acceptable in the public eye, laws that permit concealed carry will be harder to pass or made harder to get. I live in NY right now. After Sandy Hook the passed the SAFE act. I have every expectation that permits will be harder to get, renew, or have privaleges added because of public perception that people with guns will behave like Zimmerman 11187. arkymalarky - 7/16/2013 11:57:00 PM my contention was always that he had a right to attack him. I agree with 3i about how the laws will probably change, but I'm all for that. I could see that concealed carry in states like mine anyway, was just going to grant permits willy nilly to anybody who wanted one.frankly I think that will continue to be the case in states like mine. 11188. iiibbb - 7/17/2013 12:06:36 AM The permit process has to be fairly open. The bigger issue is consistent standards for justified force. Florida is very strict about open carry and discharging a weapon, but then so loose about self defense. I still say anything goes in a residence... but ultimately if you know the rules then you should know what to say or not say 11189. arkymalarky - 7/17/2013 12:16:05 AM so setting questions of consistent application based on race aside, the woman who fired a warning shot in Florida might have gone free had she just shot her ex husband. 11190. anomie - 7/17/2013 12:22:47 AM Yes. I did read that she shot into a room where she knew there was children. But still. 11191. anomie - 7/17/2013 12:24:31 AM i3b, I don't see why you blame Zimmerman. He had a gun for self defense. He used it. Why not blame the insane interpretation of the second amendment we're living under? 11192. arkymalarky - 7/17/2013 12:29:37 AM "I followed somebody because he's black and he scared me! and he scared me because he hit me because I followed him so I shot him!" yeah I can'timagine why anybody would blame Zimmerman for the scenario that played out. 11193. judithathome - 7/17/2013 12:38:03 AM The juror who spoke out last night made the statement "Black, white, Hispanic, Asian...I don't think it would have mattered...George would have done what he did regardless."
Nice. Good to know. Especially since the gun is gone from the police department...more than likely, in George's hip pocket. 11194. iiibbb - 7/17/2013 1:37:19 AM If people lump me in with Zimmerman as a class... And decide that as a class my gun rights should be lessened, then it is obviously irresponsible actions of Zimmerman that this will happen...
so I blame yahoos like him 11195. anomie - 7/17/2013 1:58:06 AM And he's a yahoo because he got out of his car, watched a person and called the police. Got it. What a creepy-ass cracker. We don't want this guy on watch after all the break ins lately. Let's physically attack him and beat his head in since he's obviously a bad guy racist asshole dumbass with the intent to murder a child.
You know this is crazy. If he wanted to kill black people he could have just shot and ran. But no, he calls the police, waits at the scene and is happy to know that there is video of what transpired. 11196. arkymalarky - 7/17/2013 2:03:09 AM you're willfully misconstruing what happened. you know damn well he didn't just watch someone. he followed him after being told not to. nice to see Zimmerman has such passionate defenders. 11197. iiibbb - 7/17/2013 2:17:14 AM Yes he is a yahoo because he got out of his car and entered un unknown situation alone. 11198. anomie - 7/17/2013 2:28:08 AM He was not told that, Arky. Doesn't matter that you want to believe it or how many times you claim it. This hatred, blame, and derision of everything Zimmerman is unreasonable and unfair and is based on deceitful accusations made by you and others as to the events and as to his intent. It's as though the truth doeasn't matter. Our ideals of due process and justice don't matter. YOu give permission for people to be attacked and beaten for doing nothing but watching out for their neighborhood (yes dammit I know it was Martin's place too). So, no I am not willfully misconstruing anything. I don't know what happened. But the misconstruing on your part would be worthy parody if it weren't so sad. There is some fundamental dishonesty in the aggression I see here against Zimmerman. It's the purest hate I've seen on any discussion board ever. What bothers me most, however is that the vitriol is unprincipled. For one thing, no matter our race, we could not live very well in a society described by your right-to-attack creed. 11199. iiibbb - 7/17/2013 3:17:11 AM if he's man enough to shoot someone in a life and death struggle he's man enough to be criticized 11200. arkymalarky - 7/17/2013 3:54:46 AM Man this is bizarre. Yes he was. Even his most rabid supporters don't argue that fact. 11201. arkymalarky - 7/17/2013 3:55:44 AM and if you think this is pure hate you live a very sheltered life. 11202. judithathome - 7/17/2013 6:30:48 AM What bothers me most, however is that the vitriol is unprincipled. For one thing, no matter our race, we could not live very well in a society described by your right-to-attack creed.
But we ARE expected to live just fine and dandy in YOUR right-to-shoot-anyone-we-feel-threatened-by society?
What's wrong with this picture?
No one asked me if people could run around my state armed to the teeth...I didn't have a say in the matter.
11203. iiibbb - 7/17/2013 11:19:17 AM Anomie cannot conceive that Martin was wronged somehow in this tragedy.
Black and White paradox.
The fact of the matter is that this situation is fucked up almost by definition.
Zimmerman is "innocent" by that doesn't mean that he didn't do something wrong... we'll probably see it bear out in some sort of civil case against Zimmerman where the bar isn't quite so high.
When we'll have two juries in apparent disagreement and Anomie's head will subsequently explode. 11204. iiibbb - 7/17/2013 11:46:23 AM I'm not even anti-gun. In fact I am one of the most vehement pro-gun people that's been on this board. I don't think government is capable of protecting people everywhere, all the time.
But now I can probably never have another discussion with Judith about responsible gun ownership where Zimmerman's name isn't going to pop up; who's actions were legal, but irresponsible.
If you think that's hate, then grow skin.
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