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11359. arkymalarky - 12/24/2013 9:28:44 PM I want to write a book about the corporatization/privatization of the US gvt since 1980, which I had originally centered on public education, though it's much deeper and broader than that, of course; but I'm too busy and lazy. One of you needs to do it. 11360. Wombat - 12/24/2013 10:35:46 PM Snowden had triggered some alarm bells while on contract to the CIA, by trying to access information that he was not cleared for. Somehow--as so often happens--this information did not make it over to the NSA.
Snowden first got his clearance by being in the military, which gives "secret" clearances routinely to its members. 11361. arkymalarky - 12/24/2013 11:49:49 PM If they don't fix those kinds of systemic problems something way worse than Snowden could happen. 11362. judithathome - 12/25/2013 2:38:22 AM Is that a "some-say" item or do you have examples?
Are you shitting me? The guy stole from his employer...to say nothing of his stealing from his government. He stole information and decamped to China...then to Russia...he is a bona fide THIEF. It has nothing to do with "some say"....HE is quite open about the fact.
If I worked for a credit card company and accessed 100 to 1,000 credit card numbers w/security codes and private information about the card holders and took them to another country and threatened to expose or sell them... and then did so with the help of a reporter...would you be asking for "examples"?
11363. judithathome - 12/25/2013 2:53:29 AM Anyhow...Merry Christmas to all...we're going to the movies tomorrow to see American Hustle...apropos, I think. ;-) 11364. arkymalarky - 12/25/2013 3:21:44 AM Mom and Dad loved it. 11365. judithathome - 12/25/2013 3:33:36 AM Looking forward to it! 11366. robertjayb - 12/25/2013 3:51:48 AM HE is quite open about the fact.
Exactly. In my opinion he is honest to a fault about what he is doing and why. And not a few approve while also thinking he is treading dangerously by tweaking an entrenched system whose bureaucrats will not hesitate to crush him.
11367. judithathome - 12/25/2013 6:04:00 PM So you think it's okay for him to offer Brazil "help" in exchange for asylum?
That's like the folks who rigged up and stole Target's credit lines offering "help" to the Russian mob in the form of all the info in exchange for a few million dollars.
Used to be when you took something illegally and asked for something in return it was called extortion. 11368. robertjayb - 12/25/2013 10:38:58 PM Wish I could link this
but would probably be futile:'
Some excerpts from AP Big Story (London dateline) re Snowden:
Snowden told the Washington Post he was satisfied because journalists have been able to tell the story of the U.S. government's collection of bulk Internet and phone records..."As soon as the journalists were able to work, everything that I had been trying to do was validated," Snowden told the Post. "Because, remember, I didn't want to change society. I wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself."
(will be) speaking directly to the British public in a televised message that will be broadcast Wednesday as an alternative to the queen's annual Christmas speech.
In his U.K. message, Snowden calls modern surveillance more invasive than any envisioned by "1984" author George Orwell, saying that children today will grow up without knowing what it means to have an unrecorded or private moment.
"That's a problem because privacy matters, privacy is what allows us to determine who we are and who we want to be," he says.
The effects of Snowden's revelations have been evident in the courts, Congress, Silicon Valley and capitals around the world, where even U.S. allies have reacted angrily to reports of U.S. monitoring of their leaders' cellphone calls. Brazil and members of the European Union are considering ways to better protect their data and U.S. technology companies such as Google, Microsoft and Yahoo are looking at ways to block the collection of data by the government.
Snowden, now 30, said he is not being disloyal to the U.S. or to his former employer.
"I am not trying to bring down the NSA, I am working to improve the NSA," he said. "I am still working for the NSA right now. They are the only ones who don't realize it."
Misguided? Opinions vary. But to compare Snowden to credit card scammers is more than a bit much.
11369. alistairconnor - 12/26/2013 2:10:55 PM The Washington Post is a good source :
Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished - The Washington Post Privacy, as Snowden sees it, is a universal right, applicable to American and foreign surveillance alike. “I don’t care whether you’re the pope or Osama bin Laden,” he said. “As long as there’s an individualized, articulable, probable cause for targeting these people as legitimate foreign intelligence, that’s fine. I don’t think it’s imposing a ridiculous burden by asking for probable cause. Because, you have to understand, when you have access to the tools the NSA does, probable cause falls out of trees.”
Judith, I don't expect you to be convinced by the article. But perhaps it might make you stop impugning his motives.11370. judithathome - 12/26/2013 8:31:42 PM Thanks for the quotes.
But perhaps it might make you stop impugning his motives.
Despite what you think, I have no power to sway anyone as to Snowden's "motives"...if you wish to believe the man who stole things illegally from his employer, fine...take him at his word. I'll shut up.
11371. Wombat - 12/26/2013 9:10:57 PM Because the sainted Snowdon is incapable of coming out with self-serving statements to justify his actions. Whatever....
Let him return and face prosecution and trial. Then he might merit a little more respect. 11372. arkymalarky - 12/26/2013 10:15:02 PM I don't respect him or the system that put himvin a position to do it; but I think what he did needed doing. It's like the burglar who reported child abuse a few days ago. 11373. robertjayb - 12/26/2013 10:43:35 PM So that's what a semicolon is for. Confirmed with AP stylebook. A+ for the teach. But AP offered way more than I wanted to know...so probably I'll just stick with dots and dashes. 11374. judithathome - 12/26/2013 11:01:56 PM The semi-colon is for making a winky face....;-) 11375. robertjayb - 12/26/2013 11:06:33 PM Alistair,
Thanks for the link. I have exhausted my month's ration of WaPo freebies; probably couldn't make the link anyway.
Do you have anything on Snowden's BBC message yesterday? 11376. arkymalarky - 12/26/2013 11:11:43 PM Haha! I had to look back to figure out what you were talking about. Forgot I'd used it. It still has a purpose, but rarely. 11377. alistairconnor - 12/27/2013 9:58:16 AM This one's for you, Wombat.
If Snowden returned to US for trial, could court admit any NSA leak evidence? - Boing Boing There seems to be a new talking point from government officials since a federal judge ruled NSA surveillance is likely unconstitutional last week: if Edward Snowden thinks he's a whistleblower, he should come back and stand trial. National Security Advisor Susan Rice said on 60 Minutes Sunday, “We believe he should come back, he should be sent back, and he should have his day in court.” Former CIA deputy director Mike Morell made similar statements this weekend, as did Rep. Mike Rogers (while also making outright false claims about Snowden at the same time). Even NSA reform advocate Sen. Mark Udall said, "He ought to stand on his own two feet. He ought to make his case. Come home, make the case that somehow there was a higher purpose here.” These statements belie a fundamental misunderstanding about how Espionage Act prosecutions work. If Edward Snowden comes back to the US to face trial, it is likely he will not be able to tell a jury why he did what he did, and what happened because of his actions. Contrary to common sense, there is no public interest exception to the Espionage Act. Prosecutors in recent cases have convinced courts that the intent of the leaker, the value of leaks to the public, and the lack of harm caused by the leaks are irrelevant—and are therefore inadmissible in court. This is why rarely, if ever, whistleblowers go to trial when they’re charged under the Espionage Act, and why the law—a relic from World War I—is so pernicious. John Kiriakou, the former CIA officer who was the first to go on-the-record with the media about waterboarding, pled guilty in his Espionage Act case last year partially because a judge ruled he couldn’t tell the jury about his lack of intent to harm the United States.
11378. alistairconnor - 12/27/2013 9:58:28 AM What do you think? Would he get a fair trial?
I hope he can get a fair trial one day. I hope it doesn't take more than 10 years for the law, and mentalities, to evolve enough to enable it.
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