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11369. alistairconnor - 12/26/2013 2:10:55 PM The Washington Post is a good source :
Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished - The Washington Post Privacy, as Snowden sees it, is a universal right, applicable to American and foreign surveillance alike. “I don’t care whether you’re the pope or Osama bin Laden,” he said. “As long as there’s an individualized, articulable, probable cause for targeting these people as legitimate foreign intelligence, that’s fine. I don’t think it’s imposing a ridiculous burden by asking for probable cause. Because, you have to understand, when you have access to the tools the NSA does, probable cause falls out of trees.”
Judith, I don't expect you to be convinced by the article. But perhaps it might make you stop impugning his motives.11370. judithathome - 12/26/2013 8:31:42 PM Thanks for the quotes.
But perhaps it might make you stop impugning his motives.
Despite what you think, I have no power to sway anyone as to Snowden's "motives"...if you wish to believe the man who stole things illegally from his employer, fine...take him at his word. I'll shut up.
11371. Wombat - 12/26/2013 9:10:57 PM Because the sainted Snowdon is incapable of coming out with self-serving statements to justify his actions. Whatever....
Let him return and face prosecution and trial. Then he might merit a little more respect. 11372. arkymalarky - 12/26/2013 10:15:02 PM I don't respect him or the system that put himvin a position to do it; but I think what he did needed doing. It's like the burglar who reported child abuse a few days ago. 11373. robertjayb - 12/26/2013 10:43:35 PM So that's what a semicolon is for. Confirmed with AP stylebook. A+ for the teach. But AP offered way more than I wanted to know...so probably I'll just stick with dots and dashes. 11374. judithathome - 12/26/2013 11:01:56 PM The semi-colon is for making a winky face....;-) 11375. robertjayb - 12/26/2013 11:06:33 PM Alistair,
Thanks for the link. I have exhausted my month's ration of WaPo freebies; probably couldn't make the link anyway.
Do you have anything on Snowden's BBC message yesterday? 11376. arkymalarky - 12/26/2013 11:11:43 PM Haha! I had to look back to figure out what you were talking about. Forgot I'd used it. It still has a purpose, but rarely. 11377. alistairconnor - 12/27/2013 9:58:16 AM This one's for you, Wombat.
If Snowden returned to US for trial, could court admit any NSA leak evidence? - Boing Boing There seems to be a new talking point from government officials since a federal judge ruled NSA surveillance is likely unconstitutional last week: if Edward Snowden thinks he's a whistleblower, he should come back and stand trial. National Security Advisor Susan Rice said on 60 Minutes Sunday, “We believe he should come back, he should be sent back, and he should have his day in court.” Former CIA deputy director Mike Morell made similar statements this weekend, as did Rep. Mike Rogers (while also making outright false claims about Snowden at the same time). Even NSA reform advocate Sen. Mark Udall said, "He ought to stand on his own two feet. He ought to make his case. Come home, make the case that somehow there was a higher purpose here.” These statements belie a fundamental misunderstanding about how Espionage Act prosecutions work. If Edward Snowden comes back to the US to face trial, it is likely he will not be able to tell a jury why he did what he did, and what happened because of his actions. Contrary to common sense, there is no public interest exception to the Espionage Act. Prosecutors in recent cases have convinced courts that the intent of the leaker, the value of leaks to the public, and the lack of harm caused by the leaks are irrelevant—and are therefore inadmissible in court. This is why rarely, if ever, whistleblowers go to trial when they’re charged under the Espionage Act, and why the law—a relic from World War I—is so pernicious. John Kiriakou, the former CIA officer who was the first to go on-the-record with the media about waterboarding, pled guilty in his Espionage Act case last year partially because a judge ruled he couldn’t tell the jury about his lack of intent to harm the United States.
11378. alistairconnor - 12/27/2013 9:58:28 AM What do you think? Would he get a fair trial?
I hope he can get a fair trial one day. I hope it doesn't take more than 10 years for the law, and mentalities, to evolve enough to enable it. 11379. Wombat - 12/27/2013 6:10:47 PM He'll get to have his say. Then he can assume his rightful martyr's robes. And walk the walk after talking the talk.
Otherwise he can stay in the free paradise of Putin's Russia, or continue trying to barter information for a more comfortable exile. 11380. robertjayb - 12/28/2013 1:45:32 AM So now onward toward the Supremes?
NEW YORK (AP) - The heated debate over the National Security Agency's bulk collection of millions of Americans' telephone records fell squarely into the courts Friday, when a federal judge in Manhattan upheld the legality of the program and cited its need in the fight against terrorism just days after another federal judge concluded it was likely not constitutional. The ruling by U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III and an opposing view earlier this month by U.S. District Judge Richard Leon in Washington D.C. sets the stage for federal appeals courts to confront the delicate balance developed when the need to protect national security clashes with civil rights established in the Constitution. 11381. robertjayb - 12/28/2013 3:10:40 AM (U.S. District Judge William H. III) Pauley has subscribed to the NSA's Greater Manure Pile theory of crimefighting ("If the pile of manure is big enough, there must be a pony underneath it somewhere!"). The fact that the evidence in support of the Greater Manure Pile is secret means that its advocates can simply wink and lay their fingers alongside their noses and say "If you only knew what I knew..." and then ask for another billion dollars for their own surveillance empires.
(Boing Boing)?
Why didn't I know about Boing Boing? Nobody tells me anything. Sheesh.
11382. robertjayb - 12/28/2013 4:03:43 AM Pretty good company...
Ben Franklin, whistleblowing leaker of government secrets — Benjamin Franklin was a leaker of government secrets, who circulated intercepted letters from the colonial lieutenant governor of Massachusetts Bay to the British government. The letters detailed a scheme to take away colonists' legally guaranteed freedoms "by degrees" and called for more troops to keep order during the process. After the letters were published, Franklin admitted to leaking them, but refused to give up his source. The crown called it "thievery and dishonor" and he was fired from his postmaster general gig (thankfully, there was no Espionage Act on the books at the time). (via Techdirt) — Cory • 12
(Boing Boing) i luvit 11383. arkymalarky - 12/28/2013 5:21:14 AM And on the subject of surveillance and privacy, use duckduckgo for searching online instead of Google. I don't but Stan does. 11384. Wombat - 12/28/2013 6:00:23 PM RJB,
Pretty good company indeed: The secretary to Benjamin Franklin's mission in Paris was a British spy. 11385. Trillium - 12/28/2013 9:02:06 PM NSA Intercepts Letters to Santa! ("If the children have been good, they have nothing to worry about")
Operation MILKCOOKIES
"Speaking on condition of anonymity, a former senior administration official defended the program: ”We’re only looking for any unusual presents, like children who ask Santa for pressure cookers, large amounts of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, hyzadrine rocket fuel, things like that. I mean a six-year old with a hammer is bad enough; just try to imagine that same six-year old with a truck bomb.”
From "Duffelblog: The Military's Most Trusted News Source"
Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/12/nsa-letters-to-santa/#ixzz2onVyxOJf
11386. Wombat - 12/29/2013 1:11:47 AM Trillium,
I think you've been spoofed. 11387. Trillium - 12/29/2013 2:20:29 AM Wombat, how hard did you have to think? Lord 11388. Wombat - 12/29/2013 3:59:10 AM Sometimes my irony meter doesn't work so well...
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