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14124. Magoseph - 3/13/2005 6:34:33 PM Baptists and the Ten Commandments
Pat Carlson's Thursday letter ("Religion and the state") contained factual and theological errors.
The Baptist Joint Committee is not "a legal arm of the BGCT."
Rather, the Baptist General Convention of Texas is one of many Baptist bodies supporting the ministry of the BJC, an organization that has been working for nearly 70 years to protect the historic Baptist principle of religious liberty -- that religion must be freely exercised and neither helped nor harmed by government.
The BJC opposes government endorsement of the Ten Commandments monument at the Texas Capitol because the monument does not have a secular purpose, as required by the Constitution.
Even conservative Justice Antonin Scalia recognized during March 2 arguments before the Supreme Court that the commandments are primarily a religious text -- they signify God's covenant with a particular people. "I am the Lord thy God" is not a secular phrase.
Carlson correctly noted the BJC's argument that the commandments did not exercise "an extraordinary influence on American law."
The many documents that did influence our law say little about religion and nothing about the commandments. Further, the United States is not a Puritan theocracy; it is a constitutional republic in which all religions are protected and none is endorsed.
The First Amendment is not subject to the will of the majority; it protects the minority, the individual, even the atheist.
This doesn't mean that Christians cannot be "involved politically." To the contrary, separation of church and state allows all Americans to present their beliefs in the public square.
This has fostered an unparalleled religiosity in our nation. We can practice our faith freely, without coercion, allowing it to be both genuine and prophetic.
Contrary to Carlson's assertion, the BJC fully supports the teachings of the Ten Commandments. However, the BJC believes (as Baptists always have) that "spreading the word of God" is the duty of individuals and churches, not the government.
Wise Baptists must ask: Who are the best teachers of the Ten Commandments -- parents and churches or politicians and judges?
Executive Director J. Brent Walker, Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, Washington
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I was amused and saddened by Carlson's letter.
She appears to be another of the "BINOs" (Baptists In Name Only) who have driven the so-called conservative resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention. They know and care nothing for Baptist history, heritage and polity.
From the early days of the republic, Baptists have been at the forefront of efforts to keep church and state separate in the United States. The religious freedom clauses in the First Amendment are there largely due to the efforts of John Leland and Virginia Baptists. Until recently, most Baptists have fervently believed that religious liberty is best guaranteed by keeping church and state separate.
The Baptist Joint Committee was established in 1936 to speak to religious liberty issues on behalf of many Baptist organizations, including the Baptist General Convention of Texas.
The committee is not, as Carlson contended, the BGCT's "legal arm." The Southern Baptist Convention also provided major financial support until the committee's traditional Baptist positions began to interfere with the secular political aspirations of some of the SBC's fundamentalist leaders.
The BJC did indeed file amici curiae briefs in the Ten Commandments cases heard by the Supreme Court. These briefs argued, among other things, that attempts made by supporters of public displays to morph the commandments into secular documents cheapened their deeply held Judeo-Christian religious values.
This argument, as well as the basic position taken by the BJC on public display, is completely consistent with traditional Baptist doctrine and practice on separation of church and state, even though it may ruffle the feathers of BINOs like Carlson.
David R. Bradley
Winters
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The most telling lines in Carlson's letter were the final two: "It certainly makes me angry as a conservative Southern Baptist. The main reason I'm involved politically is because of my Christianity."
She identified herself as chairwoman of the Tarrant County Republican Party.
Thanks, Ms. Carlson, for letting us know that your Republican Party cares about nothing so much as pushing the religious right's agenda on us Texans. I've long suspected this to be true, but it was nice to see it in black and white -- an unusual instance of candor from a political party chairwoman.
Judith Spencer
Westworth Village 14125. arkymalarky - 3/13/2005 7:35:20 PM Thanks Judith, and congrats on the letter!
I will try to hold my nose and read the Greenberg piece. Considering a blind hog, and all. He's generally such a sanctimonious simp with a thesaurus I can barely stomach more than a line or two. He fancies himself witty and urbane, and to most Arkies who read his rag of a paper, maybe he is. But I get very weary of reading his empty platitudes sprinkled with what he thinks are incisive cuts and words he knows damn well most Arkies, even educated ones, don't know. He treats his colums like a verbal Hummer, imo. 14126. robertjayb - 3/13/2005 7:35:21 PM Good stuff Judith and Magoseph. But for a panicky moment there I thought Paul Greenberg had moved to Texas. Seems to be just a mishmosh of bylines. 14127. arkymalarky - 3/13/2005 7:44:29 PM Good letter, Judith!
I agree the Greenberg piece is good. Being Jewish, I know he tires of the Christian Right injecting itself into government (and for anyone else who might chime in, yes, I know where the Ten Commandments come from--it's the overall religion-based policy pushing that's irksome to lots of Christians, to say nothing of non-Christian Americans), but he was more direct and, frankly, better in his writing than usual. He gets into the sound of his own typing and he can be unbearable, like watching two people make out in public--but I didn't catch that tone in this piece. Guess he saves his better work for other states. 14128. arkymalarky - 3/13/2005 7:45:29 PM I wish, Robert. Y'all can have Hutchinson, too. In fact, we'd give you two Hutchinsons for the price of one.
And no, we don't want to trade them for Tom DeLay. 14129. prolph - 3/14/2005 1:48:57 AM Should the commandments be in Religion? and/or politics? Never mind.I don't care. There has been an ongoing ferver over the large cross looming over Soledad in San Diego. It is finally tp be takedn down mudst tears and cheers. Again I don't care--it is ugly though.
I failed to say hello. Hello all. I have been not s o much llurking as lurchng. I intend to reply to a various posts but by the time I return the talk is of ffunerals or such,
Here are a few answers:
no Wabbit did not go to Florida for several reasons including twp giant rcedars ofand breaking many tiles Leb enon at my neigbors yard falling on my roof. 14130. prolph - 3/14/2005 2:03:00 AM more. Congratulations to A5, the lovely hands wearing his ring.
I can't seem to fix errors in preview,I ment midst not must.
I know the weather has been bad everywhere but the rains here have been devestaating. Houses sliding down hills , sink holes appearing in many places. The sink holes ar due to antiquated underground drain pipes. We've known about the crumbling infrastrlucture for years but
the city preferred a crumby ball park instead of repaiirs.
A lot of roof damage and falling trees, my roof is tile and not seriously damaged but I had to wait awhile for repairs because there wer so many
roofs far worse than mine.
lightning bugs, Patsy 14131. wonkers2 - 3/14/2005 4:01:24 AM Cap'n Dirty sez, "Is a verbal hummer the same as an oral hummer?" 14132. arkymalarky - 3/14/2005 4:23:04 AM You'd have to ask Paul, Cap'n D. ;-)
HEY PATSY! Great to see you here! 14133. Magoseph - 3/14/2005 12:47:45 PM The Cap'n sez, "Are you kiddin'? Wonkers won't let the missus come near the Tomater Sloop!"
I just saw that answer in Sex & Gender, Cap’n—you mean to tell me that Mrs. Wonkers objects to your presence on the sloop?
Hello, Mac, Ali, and every Motie on earth, still lurking…maybe, or rather hopefully—I KISS YOU! Who said that “I kiss you”, it rings a bell--who used to say that, do you remember?
14134. alistairconnor - 3/14/2005 12:57:56 PM Come now Mago - let's not call the roll of the dear departed. That only leads to talking about people behind their backs. You never know when they are going to pop up again.
They are all welcome back. Especially the one you are referring to. 14135. Magoseph - 3/14/2005 1:40:39 PM Oh, I wouldn't do that, talking about them that way--you know, Ali, I always make a point of only saying nice things behind people’s backs. As a child of six, I was vilified because I said to everyone who listened that I saw the priest kissing Mme Barnouin on the lips—I was long gone when the priest decamped with her, but I never forgot how ostracized I was for a long time, which was for ever at that age.
Anyway, I suspect that some Moties may not mind coming back and say hello to us, but maybe if they did, some may be the butt of jokes elsewhere.
14136. Macnas - 3/14/2005 3:35:15 PM I am so disappointed that I did not win 5 million in the weekend lottery. 14137. alistairconnor - 3/14/2005 4:03:02 PM So am I, but this disappointment is mitigated by the fact that I didn't buy a ticket.
In the same vein : I'm disappointed that I didn't get jumped by Catherine Zeta-Jones, but it's not really surprising because I didn't invite her to drop in. 14138. thoughtful - 3/14/2005 4:20:48 PM Pelle, glad to hear that you're ok, just stressed. I was getting quite concerned. (NOT to be confused with 'concerned'!) 14139. Macnas - 3/14/2005 4:29:16 PM Was she in the locality? you have to play the odds alistair. 14140. judithathome - 3/14/2005 5:53:49 PM We won $120 on Saturday's Lotto! 14141. alistairconnor - 3/14/2005 6:51:03 PM $120... play the odds... you mean, like trying for a pull in a local bar? 14142. Macnas - 3/14/2005 6:54:17 PM Well, the odds of pulling Ms Jones go up substantially if you happen to be in the bar at the same time she is. Never mind the odds of her being there in the first place.
Well done judith!
What would I do with $120?...hmmm......I could use them as beer vouchers I suppose. 14143. Ms. No - 3/14/2005 8:29:15 PM Mago,
I KISS YOU!!!
Comes from a website created by a Turkish guy to try and get dates. It was sort of a personal ad and one of the things most often repeated on it was "I KISS YOU!".
Diva-licious brought our attention to it and it just sort of stuck and became a standard greeting. One of my faves!
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