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17318. Magoseph - 11/1/2005 9:27:38 PM Hello, Ms. No--It's very nice to hear from you. 17319. Ms. No - 11/1/2005 9:30:51 PM It's good to see you as well. It seems a bit slow today. I actually have work to do but my brain is scrambled so I'm avoidant today.
What's your day like? 17320. Magoseph - 11/1/2005 10:27:51 PM Ms. No---is there a TV next to you? You should try to see what's going on right now. The Democrats are in close session right now. They're revolting, it seems. 17321. Ms. No - 11/1/2005 10:39:51 PM No TV here at work. I suppose I'd better go look for some online news.
17322. arkymalarky - 11/2/2005 1:34:55 AM I'm watching the Denver vote on teacher pay based on student performance.
People really don't want anyone teaching poor kids. But this program does give financial incentives to teachers to teach in poor districts, so that's a good thing. 17323. Magoseph - 11/2/2005 12:36:17 PM Hello, Moties.
They're revolting, it seems.
I think I should have written, They are in revolt...
Maybe not, what do you think? 17324. Magoseph - 11/2/2005 12:38:33 PM How will student performance be determined, Arky? 17325. judithathome - 11/2/2005 9:29:19 PM I hate to call them revolting just as they are starting to grow spines so I prefer "They are in revolt"! 17326. Ms. No - 11/2/2005 9:51:14 PM I just hope they get their act together.
J, you've got mail. ;-> 17327. judithathome - 11/2/2005 10:30:31 PM Received and happily answered! 17328. Ms. No - 11/2/2005 10:54:03 PM woo-hoo! 17329. Jenerator - 11/3/2005 12:46:46 AM Arky,
Dallas Independent School District has to pay its teachers more than surrounding districts to entice teachers to teach in it, yet it still has a problem attracting and keeping qualified teachers because of the many, many, many problems DISD has. Some of the schools in the district are poor, some aren't. Some schools are filled with problem students, some aren't. Etc., etc..
Some of my friends have left Plano Independent School District to teach in DISD for more money, and ALL of them have said that their schools are terrible.
Incidently, DISD says that roughly 11% of the crimes committed on its campuses are by gang memmbers.
I know that Little Rock Arkansas has a gang problem. I wonder if its school district pays its teachers more, too? 17330. arkymalarky - 11/3/2005 1:19:25 AM Yes, it does. And a lot of people in the Little Rock area are very opposed to small rural schools like the one I work in, saying they're inefficient and waste resources, even though we have far more success with disadvantaged students than large poor districts do and we don't spend more per pupil than large poor districts--we spend less.
I get paid less, but I enjoy my job a lot more, feel much more appreciated, and feel like I can have more positive impact on students--not just academically, but socially, which imo is not emphasized like it needs to be. There are lots of jobs that are important that don't require college degrees, but do require people with integrity, commitment, and a willingness to work hard--CNA's, for example.
But--that said--the richest districts in the state also pay teachers the most and come with excellent working conditions and facilities. They don't like us either, and they try to compare student performance in ways that don't account for the different conditions kids come in with and the local resources the districts have. 17331. arkymalarky - 11/3/2005 1:21:54 AM How will student performance be determined, Arky?
That's the $64,000 question. Districts know which teachers aren't doing well. They need to make it easier to get rid of them, and as Jen points out, to attract good teachers who will stay by good pay AND good working conditions.
In AR, people leave poor rural schools for more money in large districts like Little Rock and from there, rather than go back to low pay, they leave the system entirely, making the problem of teacher shortages worse.
17332. arkymalarky - 11/3/2005 1:24:11 AM Little Rock's school system, btw, like that of most cities that have areas with a lot of poverty, is a very mixed bag. I have friends and family who've made careers there, and ones who left the system after a very short time. 17333. wonkers2 - 11/3/2005 2:00:31 AM In my experience pay-for-performance systems are hard to administer, lead to a lot of dissatisfaction and gaming of the system. 17334. wonkers2 - 11/3/2005 2:13:56 AM My experience has been in industry and government, not education, but I did study behavioral science with some of the best in the business such as William Foote Whyte. A contemporary writer on the subject is Alfie Kohn 17335. wonkers2 - 11/3/2005 2:18:27 AM Of course being against pay for performance in quite counter-intuitive in American society. It can work of course in some situations where actual individual performance can be measured accurately, such as in the case of door-to-door salesmen or professinal athletes where comprehensive performance statistics do provide pretty good insight into the individual's contribution. But most people's jobs are less susceptible to accurate measures of their performance because their contribution is hard to separate from others in their organization, long time span for results, etc. 17336. judithathome - 11/3/2005 2:58:18 AM I get paid less, but I enjoy my job a lot more, feel much more appreciated, and feel like I can have more positive impact on students
Judging from how many times we're stopped (when we're visiting) by former students gushing over Arky and what a difference she's made in their lives, I'd say Arky's teacher performance scores are out the roof! 17337. wonkers2 - 11/3/2005 4:17:58 AM I'm sure she's a great teacher.
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