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24252. thoughtful - 7/21/2008 11:40:59 PM I remember growing up with my MIL having lost her sight and my FIL treating her in a way that most outsiders would've seen as cruel...forcing her to do things for herself, watching her struggle and not moving to help her. Instead he did her the biggest favor of all, letting her learn that she could do far more than she ever thought she could and never allowing her a moment of self-pity for her situation. As a result she was able to live far more independently than many in a similar situation, and she, and we, were proud of all her accomplishments despite her handicap.
There's a lot to be said for tough love. 24253. thoughtful - 7/21/2008 11:42:36 PM Mind you isbs, (disclaimer here) that I am only basing my advice on what you've told me about the situation...I don't know the whole story and am not there. I don't know what you aren't telling me or her perspective.
But given what you've said, I'm trying to reflect it back to you and give some suggestions that will maybe somehow resonate and give you something useful to bring to the situation.
Hang tough. 24254. iiibbb - 7/22/2008 12:02:11 AM Opinions are appreciated.
I've tried putting my foot down. Like I've said in the past I've burned up so much marital capitol engineering this move in the first place that "putting my foot down" usually invokes baggage that isn't the same.
Also, I want her out of here. While it would be nice if she would deal with it a little bit, the basic fact is that her job situation is not working out the way it needs to be working out. Based on that alone we're leaving. She just wants out like, yesterday.
I won't bend like this in the future... it's just the unusual combination of circumstances that prevent me from doing it here.
I actually do believe that moving North would solve some of the problems... and certainly would assist in dealing with the others... which is why I do want to go along with it. However, I can only move things along so fast and I can only work with what I have in hand job-wise.
It would be nice for her to go to counseling. I've breeched the subject many times, but to no avail so far. 24255. arkymalarky - 7/22/2008 12:43:56 AM Thoughtful's right about the depression. I was miserable, but I wasn't depressed, so I wanted to go to counseling. Tread water to the move. Y'all will get there, and then you will have a better view of the rest of it. You say she's looking at a job change within a few months. Can she start planning the move now? Networking, looking at places to live, planning a reunite with her family, etc? I spent the last two years Bob was in school, while we were living like church mice, planning my house. It was very theraputic. 24256. iiibbb - 7/22/2008 12:58:08 AM That's one thing I've tried to encourage. I've told her that I don't like talking about how it sucks there; I'd rather talk about the advantages of New England. I pretty much won't respond to her when she's complaining; following the principle of "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything."
We should find out about her position by October... when I need to start looking anyway.
I've been depressed before, so I know what's going on for her. What I can't relate to is the complete disengagement. I've always found a way to tread water until I got to a better place. She doesn't. She spends too much energy recounting the "mistakes" that got us there... which is wasted energy... but her family does it... and fruit don't fall far from a tree. 24257. iiibbb - 7/22/2008 12:58:50 AM And you should all go ooh and ahh at my table in "the good life". 24258. arkymalarky - 7/22/2008 1:18:24 AM Oh, I did and I loved it! I read Thoughtful and Alistair's replies, and it does look beautiful! I love oak, too. I was thinking when I looked at that about how much good wood there is around here, and a couple of Bob's friends have made furniture, but neither he nor I are handy with wood or saws.
There was a guy in this area who was internationally known for his marimbas and he used rosewood. He moved his business and either sold or gave a bunch of it to a friend of Bob's. It was absolutely gorgeous wood, but in all kinds of odd shapes, some blocks, some slats, some rounded on the bottom and flat on top, etc. I got so sick of Bob and his buddies talking about how great that wood was and what all could be done with it--all over about five or six years, during which not a single piece was used for anything--that I finally grabbed three blocks and some glue and made a napkin holder in about five minutes.
Another friend of Bob's finally took most of it, after we had it a while (that's how things work around here; things make a circle around friends until they get to the LAST FRIEND who may or may not use it), and he used it for accents for some beautiful furniture he and another friend made. I'll post a picture of a bench he made us when I get set up to post pictures again. Handmade hardwood furniture is a great skill, and will last generations.
24259. Ms. No - 7/22/2008 7:04:56 AM i3b3,
Depression sucks and I know how debilitating it can be. That's why they have therapy and medication. The inertia, the inability to take action even when you know what you should be doing really is one of the symptoms most easily treated with psychotropics. The vicious cycle is that the knowing and not doing increases the self-flagellation which increases the depression which increases the inertia etc. etc.
Many (most?) people are, at best, reluctant to take drugs for depression. It's a tough hurdle to overcome, but the truth is that most people who are prescribed don't have to take them for long. It's generally just a tool to help a body through a particularly tough time. Knowing that psychotropics aren't a rest-of-your-life kind of thing helps a lot of people open themselves to the idea of taking meds for a specific time.
A couple of years ago I was dealing with some incredibly difficult issues in my family life. The least of it was waking up sobbing most nights. There was also very little I could do to take positive action so I had a lot of real worry and no way to combat it. I started having panic attacks, but worse were what I refer to as sudden-random-doom attacks. I'd be driving along and suddenly just know that my closest family members had been killed in a car accident, or that my house had burned down or my dog would be dead when I got home or that I'd fall on a curb and knock my teeth out or I'd end up bankrupt and homeless. All the while I was having these thoughts I knew they were irrational, but my brain was stuck in this obsessive-compulsive loop that I couldn't break free of.
I was seeing a therapist at the time and when I told him about the obsessive thought patterns that were ambushing me with increasing frequency he said "What if I told you there was a tiny little pill that could make all of that go away?"
I thought he was asking a rhetorical question, but it turns out he really was talking about a pill smaller than a Tic-Tac. I only ended up taking it for about a week or ten days and I almost immediately got results. I'd still get the horrid pop-up thoughts, but I could actually stop them nearly immediately. The drug helped my rational brain do its business. After I felt better I stopped taking them and a couple of times I got stressed and had to go back on them for a day or two, but it was a pretty brief episode.
Anyway, the point of all that is that medication might help your wife break the cycle she's in. You mention that a fair amount of negative dwelling is a gift from her family dynamic, but even so, it's possible that she could get a handle on that and scale back if she had a bit of a boost.
Best of luck, man. We're "ear" for you. 24260. iiibbb - 7/22/2008 12:49:17 PM She won't do meds for a few reasons. She's pretty obsessive about chemicals... has been since before we married.
The episodes that get me frustrated, are indeed episodes. There are times when she's dealing ok enough... at least ok enough to refrain from unprovoked commentary.
I think the "little pill" is getting a job elsewhere. Like I said... it is a problem that she is too isolated here. At best she has a few acquaintances, but no one she has made friends with. It's a problem not entirely of her making... only somewhat.
All the halvesies is part of the problem too because one half can be addressed while the other is ignored. Hard to have a long enough conversation that stays sane enough to explore.
She could use therapy... but she doesn't want it. 24261. iiibbb - 7/22/2008 12:50:46 PM Some of the health issues she just doesn't want to talk about to anyone. She only talks about them long enough to me to let me know what the problem is, but she can't go further than that. The mess piled onto the mess makes it hard anyway. 24262. thoughtful - 7/22/2008 1:52:34 PM Isbs, you keep making excuses for her and those excuses involve blaming yourself...I think that's why you allow it. However, the fact that you feel responsible is no excuse for letting her get mired in the past or taking you there with her. Remember you did make the choice for good reason and you didn't do it to sabotage her, but to do what you thought would be best in the long run. Stop feeling guilty about it.
Putting your foot down may have put it more strongly than what I was really suggesting...it's the calm assertive approach...no anger, but consistent calm disciplined approach to limiting the bad stuff. Pick a phrase and then repeat as often as necessary until it stops. This last technique was one I learned in, of all places, weight watchers! For dealing with the evil relative who purposely tries to sabotage your dieting efforts by pushing food on you. The response is an exact phrase that gets repeated each time. After a few tries, they start looking like idiots for not getting it the first time and then they stop trying. A phrase that works to end the conversation in our house is "Got it."
It's really an "accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can" situation at this point. So the dwelling on all of this is damaging to both of you, and lots of damage can be done between now and October. That's why it's important to deal with it. If she won't go to counseling, then YOU go...at the very least you'll have a safe place to vent and you may learn some new tools, new approaches that will improve the situation for both of you, as well as be a role model for her attendance as well.
Also, re depression, there is a lot of evidence that regular exercise, especially walking or running, that involves consistent repetitive patterns of motion are as effective as meds for fighting depression. If she won't do drugs, will she do exercise? Can she exercise outside? or join a gym? That also holds out the possibility for her to meet people with similar interests... 24263. arkymalarky - 7/22/2008 4:04:19 PM Also, people talk about how friendly the south is, and in a casual sort of way, in stores, etc, it's true. Getting involved in friendships and socializing, though, can be very difficult. People tend to be insular and cliquish. The college town I grew up in was like that, and my dentist, who moved in from Louisiana, even asked me about it during an exam once. He and his wife were having a terrible time developing a social life. He has since gotten into a Christian motorcycle club and now has a braid halfway down his back, so I guess he found his social niche. Work, church, and family are the three main ways people socialize in the South. If there is a synagogue nearby, even if your wife doesn't normally go, or a community group to join--it's probably too late for that now if y'all are leaving in the fall, but it might help begin a diversion, or like Thoughtful suggested, a gym. If you bought a membership for her, would she go? They have exercise classes in most gyms, and those are a great way to interact without creating social obligations. 24264. Wombat - 7/29/2008 3:52:37 PM Grind up Prozac in her applesauce! (that's a joke, son.) 24265. alistairConnor - 8/2/2008 11:22:40 AM The mail's all good today. All backwards.
First envelope : the cops. Ah crap, this will be to inform me that I've lost another point off my license? A speed camera I didn't notice?
(We have a points system for drivers' licenses - you start with 12, and lose one or more for each infraction. I was down to 5 - you have to stay clean for three years to get all your points back).
But no! They announce that I've been clean for one year, so they are giving me back the last point I lost... now I've got six lives.
Second letter : the electric company. A bill I need to pay? But no : they are inviting ME to bill THEM. My solar electric panels have been under contract for a year now, I need to read the meter and bill them for the three or four thousand kilowatt hours I've generated this year.
I'm now confidently awaiting a letter from the tax department, telling me they owe me lots of money. (seriously. by my calculation they owe me a substantial amount -- not just a refund but an actual credit.)
Hmm what else could I hope for in the mail? Any suggestions, while I'm on a roll? 24266. David Ehrenstein - 8/2/2008 2:19:06 PM You can find an excerpt from my memoir on Dennis Cooper's Blog this weekend. 24267. iiibbb - 8/2/2008 2:19:48 PM Let's just hope you don't get one from Ed McMahon. 24268. judithathome - 8/4/2008 7:06:22 PM We had a great time at the Arky's, as usual and I came home with an excellent souvenir: a new car!
2009 Hyundai Sonata Limited...it has everything! GPS, X/M radio, CD player, heated seats. It's this weird color...Metallic Cocoa. In the shade, it looks black but when the sun hits it, it's dark, dark brown. Tan leather interior with burlwood accents.
24269. vonKreedon - 8/4/2008 7:45:11 PM AC - How about an insurance rebate? Or maybe a letter from a lawyer informing you that some aged asshole relative has died and left you money? (the asshole part inserted to stay with the theme that the mail should at first seem ominous before becoming good news.) 24270. anomie - 8/4/2008 9:37:09 PM Congrats on the new car, Judith. Was it cheaper to buy in AR? 24271. anomie - 8/4/2008 9:39:58 PM AC, You might have an overage in your escrow account you don't know about...(or it could be a notice of a shortage).
Those insurance rebates are a pain really. Thye could just as easily credit my next bill, but instead I have to spend 45 cents and the time to mail the check deposit to he bank.
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