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28092. jexster - 3/26/2006 4:45:54 PM Last week's TPMC Book Club featured Kevin Phillips and his best-selling American Theocracy
There was a gaggle of various commentator/reviewers and load of comments on the comments all of which can be found starting here
Consensus: Just say no to snake chunkers (Earl Long's)
28093. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 3/26/2006 5:27:13 PM 
28094. Jenerator - 3/26/2006 5:42:55 PM Adam,
They're not new. Plus, they're required reading for us in school (at Christian universities and seminaries).
I find most of them to be rambling esoteric sayings that have no coherency and consistency. 28095. Adam Selene - 3/26/2006 7:33:36 PM Hi Jen,
Since this is Sunday, the day that St. Constantine decided that Christians should worship on instead of the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) in order to coincide with "Sun"Day, the Roman day of worship for the Sun god... it's appropriate to talk a little heresay, eh? :)
I guess "new" is relative. The Nag Hammadi gospels were discovered in December 1945 and the English translation I'm reading, by Marvin Meyer, was first published last year (Harper Collins.)
What is the official stance of the Christion community on these writings? They're arguably older than the new testement gospels and have had no chance to be doctored or amended since they sat in that stone urn for 1900 years. There are definitely nuances and outright contradictions between these gospels and the canonical gospels (not that the canonical gospels are anything close to being internally consistent themselves.)
One Passage I found especially iconoclastic is in The Gospel of Philip:
The companion of the savior is Mary of Magdala.("Companion" was often a euphamism for wife, by the way.) The savior loved her more than all the disciples, and he kissed her often on the mouth.
The other disciples said to him, "why do you love her more than all of us?"
The savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her? If a blind person and one who can see are both in darkness, they are the same. The the light comes, one who can see will see the light, and the blind person will stay in darkness." 28096. Adam Selene - 3/26/2006 7:36:24 PM Ok, so his answer is a bit cryptic - but what else would befit a good parable? ;) 28097. judithathome - 3/26/2006 7:43:03 PM What does that cryptic answer mean, though? That he once liked the farm but after seeing the city, he'll never go back? 28098. Adam Selene - 3/26/2006 7:51:00 PM Your guess is as good as mine, since the Pope hasn't told us yet what it's supposed to mean. :) (Sorry.. feeling a bit of the mischievous iconoclast myself, today.) 28099. judithathome - 3/26/2006 8:11:58 PM No need to apologize to me...I'm an atheist! ;-) 28100. jexster - 3/26/2006 8:18:06 PM Is Jen a Baylor Bearette from Wacko Tejas??
Tom DeLay U 28101. jexster - 3/26/2006 8:20:04 PM God set fire to Tejas.
Wonder why?
Me ..when times comes that I am not in a mischievous mood, call first priest, the undertaker..I'm outta here 28102. anomie - 3/26/2006 8:50:00 PM "...and he kissed her often on the mouth."
Adam, according to an A&E show I watched recently, the quote above is conjecture. The text ends before the phrase "on the mouth". If that's true, then we can't be sure where he kissed her exactly.
28103. Adam Selene - 3/26/2006 9:11:59 PM From my new translation: square brackets indicate textual restorations.
Here's the way that section actually reads: The [savior loved] her more than [all] the disciples, [and he] kissed her often on her [mouth].
The translater, Marvin Meyer, is the Grisit Professor of Bible and Christion Studies and director of the Albert Schweitzer Institute at Chapmen University, Orange, California. (via the book jacket.) 28104. Adam Selene - 3/26/2006 9:18:41 PM BTW, I'm a babtist atheist, and my wife is a catholic athiest. There must be a specific god that you don't believe in, right? ;) 28105. SnowOwl - 3/26/2006 9:41:59 PM Not for me. I'm an any and all gods atheist. 28106. Jenerator - 3/26/2006 10:00:22 PM Hello to you Adam. It's been awhile since I have seen your moniker.
Since this is Sunday, the day that St. Constantine decided that Christians should worship on instead of the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) in order to coincide with "Sun"Day, the Roman day of worship for the Sun god... it's appropriate to talk a little heresay, eh? :)
Actually, Christians decided to worship on Sunday before Constantine. He formally recognized what the early believers had practiced for 300 years prior. Of course this is being general, there were the Messianic Christians who still held to the Sabbath.
I guess "new" is relative. The Nag Hammadi gospels were discovered in December 1945 and the English translation I'm reading, by Marvin Meyer, was first published last year (Harper Collins.)
And there are the various writings that we have from the early church fathers defending the faith against the Gnostics...
What is the official stance of the Christion community on these writings?
That's they're Gnostic.
They're arguably older than the new testement gospels and have had no chance to be doctored or amended since they sat in that stone urn for 1900 years.
That's not true - the dates have been debated vigorously and from what I have seen and read most scholars believe that the texts are newer than the Gospels.
There are definitely nuances and outright contradictions between these gospels and the canonical gospels (not that the canonical gospels are anything close to being internally consistent themselves.)
Okay...?
One Passage I found especially iconoclastic is in The Gospel of Philip:
The companion of the savior is Mary of Magdala.("Companion" was often a euphamism for wife, by the way.) The savior loved her more than all the disciples, and he kissed her often on the mouth.
The other disciples said to him, "why do you love her more than all of us?"
The savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her? If a blind person and one who can see are both in darkness, they are the same. The the light comes, one who can see will see the light, and the blind person will stay in darkness."
Does that speak to you?
28107. judithathome - 3/26/2006 10:33:28 PM God set fire to Tejas
No, Jex, assholes burning trash illegally and people throwing cigarette butts from cars, all during an extended drought, have set fire to Texas. God had nothing to do with it and probably doesn't care one whit that it's happened. 28108. Jenerator - 3/26/2006 11:18:23 PM Judith,
Do you realize that by addressing Jexster you are encouraging spam!? Now we're going to hear about how Katrina was an act of God and how Saint So and So of Jexster's church was venerated today and the Latin mass!!
(again) 28109. Adam Selene - 3/26/2006 11:51:19 PM Me: What is the official stance of the Christion community on these writings?
Jen: That they're Gnostic.
Well, that's hardly an indictment. "Gnostic" simply refers to the early christians who focused on the personnal relationships between each individual and their god ("Gnostic" refers to "knowledge", specifically - direct, personnal knowledge), which was anathema to the Catholic church who wanted their priests to intervene between god and the believer. After all, if you don't need priests... you don't need the pope, and where would you get your gold without tithing? :)
Before emporer (er, "saint") Constantine blessed the Catholic church and received their allegience in return, gnostics were actually in the majority.
In fact, today we call gnostics, "protestents." (Ok, that's a bit glib, but essentially honest.)
About the dates - yes, the actual documents may be anywhere from 100 to 300 AD, but that begs the question. They have sat, undisturbed, since then with no church intervention, which gives them just at least as much legitemacy as the official canon, if not more.
Does that speak to me? Well.. it jibes with other radical interpretations of historical Jesus that hold he was married to Mary Magdalen. In fact, it's very hard to interpret the water-to-wine wedding as anything other than the marriage of Jesus to someone.
1) Jews were required to be married. If Jesus were single, it would have been discussed at nauseum in the gospels. Yet his status is never mentioned in the canon.
2) The bridegrooms mother was responsible for providing the wine at weddings. Jesus's mother was horrified that they ran out and ordered Jesus to provide more wine, against his protestation that "it wasn't his time."
3) The "ruler of the feast" thanked the bridegroom for the excellent wine....
2+2 still equals 4, in my book. :) 28110. jexster - 3/27/2006 5:09:37 AM A Second Gay Anglican Bishop?
At least the one's we know about..
The Standing Committee of the Episcopal Diocese of CA (SF, Alameda. Marin, San Mateo) has approved the following for election to replace the outgoing Bishop Swing, as diocesan Bishop of Cahleefohnia.
Note candidate number two. Michael's the partner of the rector of my parish!! He was added by pettion when the Search Committee failed to include him in the list of nominees
28111. thoughtful - 3/27/2006 2:46:50 PM This one's for Jen:
(March 24, 2006)—Tennessee authorities said Friday that the wife of murdered Selmer, Tenn. minister Matthew Winkler has confessed to the killing.
Winkler was the popular pastor of the Fourth Street Church of Christ in Selmer.
Church members found his body Wednesday night in the bedroom of the church parsonage after he failed to show up for an evening service.
He had been shot once in the back. There were no signs of a struggle, authorities said.
Winkler’s wife and three daughters were missing and the family’s minivan was not at the home.
The discovery of the body sparked a statewide search for the woman and three children.
They were later found in Orange Beach, Ala.
The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said earlier Friday it had gathered enough information to charge Mary Winkler with first-degree murder.
During a news conference late Friday morning, authorities said she has confessed to killing her husband.
I posted it here because it had to do with a minister.
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