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28146. jexster - 4/15/2006 4:25:02 AM Meditation 2 -- Reproaches:
P. O my people, what have I done to you? How have I offended you? Answer me! I led you out of Egypt, from slavery to freedom, but you have led your Savior to the cross.
C. Holy is God! Holy and strong! Holy immortal One, have mercy on us.
28147. jexster - 4/15/2006 5:25:53 PM Gregorian Chants and Scores Lent - Easter
ECCE LIGNUM CRUCIS
(Antiphon of the Liturgy– Holy friday)
Ecce lignum crucis, in quo salus mundi pependit.
¡Venite adoremus!
Behold the timber of the cross on which Salvation of the world was suspended.
Come to adore him!
The Litany of the Saints28148. jexster - 4/15/2006 6:00:50 PM Doing the Triduum of Holy Week on Rhapsody, I discoveed something rather amazing. THe Reproaches in which the ancient gregorian chant alternates with a Sufi muslim riffs from someone apparently fairly famous (Sony) from Pakistan (Novum Gaudium. Invocation)
28149. Jenerator - 4/16/2006 2:53:19 PM 1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
2There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
5The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."
8So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."
The Guards' Report
11While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, 13telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.' 14If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble." 15So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.
The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Happy Easter! 28150. sakonige - 4/17/2006 1:35:35 AM
"Jesus died for your sins two thousand years before you committed any" is one of the strangest religious concepts I've come across. Christians seem to take it for granted, but it makes no sense at all. The two acts have no logical connection. The sequence of events is backwards with the punishment preceding the sin, and there is no explaination of how punishing an innocent person absolves the guilty party. Is it supposed to be a pre-paid accounting transaction in some kind of transferrable spiritual credits? 28151. sakonige - 4/17/2006 1:43:40 AM And then it's all supposed to work because the life that was to be sacrificed hasn't actaully ended?
It doesn't make any sense. 28152. Adam Selene - 4/17/2006 2:26:24 AM Sakonige - what's your religion, and what absurd articles of faith do you profess? 28153. sakonige - 4/17/2006 4:37:41 AM I guess I don't have a religion.
How about you? 28154. Ulgine Barrows - 4/17/2006 4:47:42 AM I don't have religion either, and anyone here, who says they do, are LIARS.
I have my own beliefs
And spirituality is another matter entirely.
I won't argue with you if you say you have RITUALS.
eggs were on sale this week, ya know 28155. Adam Selene - 4/17/2006 2:03:21 PM I guess I'm a babtist athiest. I was raised a babtist but when I was a teenager and went through the "what is all this stuff people think I should believe" stage, I realized it was a bunch of hooey. (Sorry Jenn.)
It's funny - I don't believe any particular religion or even the concept that this is all planned in anyway, yet I have some weird sense that there is more to reality than we know and that death isn't the end. I find that I'm much more moral than most religious people I know, but it doesn't come from outside, just what I choose. Maybe I'm a closet existentialist...
I don't think there is any personal survival after death - but that there are other forms of consiousness and participation in reality. Whatever form it takes (or not,) my wishing it were otherwise is irrelevant. But I find (as I get older) that I don't fear death as I did as a kid and I don't need some escape hatch fantasy that I will live forever. 28156. wonkers2 - 4/17/2006 3:46:24 PM Up to $50,000 a dozen I hear. 28157. PelleNilsson - 4/17/2006 5:07:50 PM Adam
You seem to have a genuine interest in the issues we discuss in this thread. Would you agree to host it? resonance hasn't posted in ages. I'm sure he won't object, and if he does I'll crush his virtual head with the blunt side of my virtual meat cleaver. 28158. jexster - 4/17/2006 6:26:14 PM Just say NO to McCainanite Babdist Atheists 28159. jexster - 4/17/2006 6:29:44 PM "Jesus died for your sins two thousand years before you committed any" is one of the strangest religious concepts I've come across.
First you have to believe in God (beyond time and space) and then you have to believe that Jesus is True God and True Man. Amd you also have to believe in Original Sin - that sin is a human existential.
The Muslims have a similiar concept - the pre-existing Quran. Jesus the pre-existing Logos. 28160. Adam Selene - 4/17/2006 6:36:32 PM Umm... Pelle, what exactly does a Mote Host do? I'm hardly an expert on religion or philosophy... 28161. jexster - 4/17/2006 7:00:22 PM You keep Pelle in line
Sak...the Second Reading, Good Friday propers, says it all quite poetically I think..one of my favorites, esp. the last few verses.
Hebrews 10.1-25
[Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All]
Since the law has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make perfect those who approach. Otherwise, would they not have ceased being offered, since the worshippers, cleansed once for all, would no longer have any consciousness of sin? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin year after year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
‘Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body you have prepared for me;
in burnt-offerings and sin-offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
Then I said, “See, God, I have come to do your will, O God”
(in the scroll of the book it is written of me).’
When he said above, ‘You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings and sin-offerings’ (these are offered according to the law), then he added, ‘See, I have come to do your will.’ He abolishes the first in order to establish the second. And it is by God’s will that we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest stands day after day at his service, offering again and again the same sacrifices that can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, ‘he sat down at the right hand of God’, and since then has been waiting ‘until his enemies would be made a footstool for his feet.’ For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us, for after saying,
‘This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds’,
he also adds,
‘I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.’
Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Therefore, my friends, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain (that is, through his flesh), and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who has promised is faithful. And let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good deeds, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
Joy to thee O Queen of Heavan!
28162. jexster - 4/17/2006 7:04:39 PM REGINA CAELI
Joy to thee, O Queen of Heaven: alleluia
He whom thou was meet to bear: alleluia
As he promised hath arisen: alleluia
Pour for us to God thy prayer: alleluia
Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary, alleluia
For the Lord is risen indeed, alleluia
O God, who by the resurrection of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ brought joy to the whole world; grant that through the intercession of his Mother the Virgin Mary we may obtain the joys of life everlasting. Through Jesus Christ our Lord. AMEN.
28163. PelleNilsson - 4/17/2006 7:40:08 PM First you have to believe in God (beyond time and space) and then you have to believe that Jesus is True God and True Man. Amd you also have to believe in Original Sin - that sin is a human existential.
Yes, first you have to believe, then everything will fall into place. And belief has nothing to do with rationality. Its very essence is to be irrational.
28164. PelleNilsson - 4/17/2006 7:52:53 PM Adam,
To be a Mote Host is very simple and easy. You will get certain powers such as moving posts to another thread (in case they are completely off-subject) or deleting them altogether (if they are unseemly). You may use these powers as you seem fit. You can take an aggressive stand, as some people think I do, or you can adopt a laid-back anything-goes policy. It is entirely up to you.
What is important is that you keep an eye on the thread and occasionally introduce some fresh subject of discussion. Expertise is not required. Interest in the matter at hand will do very nicely. 28165. sakonige - 4/17/2006 7:56:27 PM Jexter, thanks for taking time to respond.
This seems to be a circular argument, though. The text simply says the sacrifice works because the text says the sacrifice works.
It says it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins, but it doesn't say how it is possible for anybody elses blood to take away sins, particularly sins that have not yet been committed.
(I'm trying to understand why anyone would find this a compelling argument, since so many people apparently do.)
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