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28165. sakonige - 4/17/2006 7:56:27 PM Jexter, thanks for taking time to respond.
This seems to be a circular argument, though. The text simply says the sacrifice works because the text says the sacrifice works.
It says it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins, but it doesn't say how it is possible for anybody elses blood to take away sins, particularly sins that have not yet been committed.
(I'm trying to understand why anyone would find this a compelling argument, since so many people apparently do.) 28166. sakonige - 4/17/2006 7:59:16 PM Adam Selene, I trust my instincts and try to cultivate them as much as possible. I guess that's my religion. I believe the natural processes that created me are right. 28167. transient1a - 4/17/2006 8:39:59 PM Science and Religion: Two Very Different -- but not so different views of science
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2006/200604/20060414.html
On this most holy of days for Christians, we thought we'd introduce you to a man who's put a lot of thought into where this "belief impulse" comes from and why humans are capable of believing in everything from angels to aliens.
Lewis Wolpert is an evolutionary biologist and Professor Emeritus of Biology as Applied to Medicine at University College, in London. He is the author of Six Impossible Things Before Breakfast: The Evolutionary Origins of Belief. And he joined us from our London Studio. Audio of this interview:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/media/200604/20060414thecurrent_sec1.ram
http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/quirks/archives/05-06/apr15.html
Brother Guy Consolmagno, Jesuit and Astronomer
Science and religion are often seen in conflict, but that's something Brother Guy Consolmagno would like to put behind us. He's certainly put it behind him. Brother Guy is the curator of Meteorites of the Vatican Observatory, and an accomplished planetary scientist, and he sees no tension at all between his science and his religion. He also thinks many scientists with religious beliefs feel the same way. The conflict, he suspects, is a result of people who know too little about both science and religion. Audio of interview:
http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/quirks/media/2005-2006/mp3/qq-2006-04-15e.mp3
28168. transient1a - 4/17/2006 8:48:13 PM Guess I should put the links in properly:
CBC text
Interview
CBC text
Interview
28169. alistairConnor - 4/17/2006 10:12:45 PM I had a religious experience today.
Riding my bike through the woods, I came across a small chapel. It was open, candles burning and everything. I was in luck, it's only open one day a year : easter monday. Dedicated to Sainte Procule. This well-born young lady declined to marry the assigned gentleman, and fled from Rodez all the way to Gannat, at the other extremity of the Massif Central - must be 500 km, and very rugged terrain. There, she lived the life of a hermit, at the site of the chapel. This is circa 12th century. Anyway, her promised husband, not to be denied, pursued her and eventually tracked her down. -- Will you marry me or would you rather die? -- Don't put words in my mouth. So he lopped her head off. She calmly picked it up and walked a couple of miles into town, expiring on the site of the present day Institut de Sainte Procule.
What has this got to do with religion? Excellent question.
The answer, I think, is related to the proverb about every problem looking like a nail if your only tool is a hammer. If you only have religion as a framework for examining the world, then any remarkable event must necessarily have religious significance.
I prefer to think of Procule as a feminist martyr. Someone should write a thesis about her.
28170. jexster - 4/17/2006 10:42:30 PM Christians, to the Paschal victim!
[Victime Pascale]
But don't follow Procule..she's been de-saintified..
Otoh...God does work in mysterious ways
Elle était la fille unique d'une famille de la noblesse du Rouergue. Ses parents profondément chrétiens n'en avaient pas moins des espérances mondaines et, sûrs de l'obéissance de leur fille, ils lui cherchèrent un époux digne du rang, de la fortune et de la beauté de la future épouse. Procule refusa tout net de se plier. Des semaines passèrent et nul n'en parlait plus. Mais les parents avaient conçu un stratagème. Ils fixèrent l'époque des noces et un beau jour sainte Procule vit arriver, Géraud, son "fiancé" en brillante escorte. Les invités étaient également de la fête. Procule se déguisa en pauvresse, prit la fuite et disparut. Tout un chacun attendit vainement et comprit la chose à la vue des appartements vides. Après bien des recherches, Géraud la retrouva et, dans sa colère, la décapita. L'histoire est belle, même si elle est améliorée dans les récits touchants dans lesquels le Rouergue, l'Auvergne et le Bourbonnais ont rivalisé d'imagination
28171. arkymalarky - 4/17/2006 11:17:52 PM Wow--Hey Transient. Long time no see. 28172. Adam Selene - 4/18/2006 1:22:54 AM Pelle,
I'll give it a go on a trial basis, if that's acceptable.
So turn me on! 28173. alistairconnor - 4/18/2006 8:44:32 AM You pissing on my parade Jex? Procule been relegated to the Second Division or something?
Don't tell the locals, there'll be a riot. 28174. PelleNilsson - 4/18/2006 9:18:49 AM OK, Adam, you're on. To access the hosting tools go here and log in with your usual userID and password. There are hosting guidelines but I don't have them on my box. I have asked the other moderators to send them to you at your comcast address. 28175. Adam Selene - 4/18/2006 6:10:53 PM Ok, I guess it's official - I'm the new mod for this thread.
Now, how an atheist ended up as mod on a religion and philosophy thread I'll never know....
The only thing I ask is that everyone avoid attacking or ridiculing any particular individual here for their beliefs. It's bad enough to make fun of someone's political persuasion, but more wars have been started over religion. The idea is to educate, learn, and celebrate our "meta-life," not to convert anyone or shame anyone.
That being said... I doubt that anyone will ever know I was here except as a participant. 28176. arkymalarky - 4/18/2006 6:19:00 PM We appreciate you doing this, Adam. This place is really made functional by people who are willing to help with thread hosting, even if they are nearly invisible. 28177. uzmakk - 4/18/2006 7:11:40 PM Selene,
Why shouldn't you be host; meta-life is a metaphysicophilosophicoohsoreligiousoh idea. 28178. uzmakk - 4/18/2006 7:13:06 PM Atheist, my ass. 28179. alistairConnor - 4/18/2006 7:15:16 PM You have an ass too, as well as the ponies?
I'm not surprised he's an atheist. There is something profoundly sceptical about a donkey. 28180. uzmakk - 4/18/2006 7:28:03 PM Hee-haw, I certainly do. 28181. uzmakk - 4/18/2006 7:31:50 PM And, of course, his name is Atheist. Hup hup...excuse me...I think we're off and running. 28182. Adam Selene - 4/18/2006 7:37:23 PM Thanks, Arky.
Thanks uzmakk... uhh...
Well, if you're serious about your doubts, I'd realistically say I'm about 2% agnostic, 98% atheist. Is that better? I mean, I'm almost sure I'm an atheist. I certainly haven't met a religion yet that I didn't find absurd, but I do have a lingering sense that there are other kinds of consiousness - like, for example, a brain cell would feel as part of our minds. No identity, but just a part of something bigger. And who knows - if time is really infinite (and there is no big crunch coming without a periodic bang... and there is no endless entropic expansion....) then we should all meet again in endless variations. 28183. uzmakk - 4/18/2006 8:46:40 PM Oh meh God. 28184. Adam Selene - 4/19/2006 1:54:00 AM You hava a God? Who knew? ;)
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