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28180. ScottLoar - 9/3/2014 1:01:04 AM I don’t know why, suddenly on this Monday Labor Day evening in Shanghai I was moved to look to The Mote, which I hadn’t done in years and years, and then to see that Fray Vader had passed - no, wait, surely not Irving Snodgrass? And there, yes, the notes that he died. No, no, I knew this man, I visited him in Jakarta, had dinner at his house, had seen him and his children, wife, I knew this man...
How can this be? I look around without seeing and wonder, how can this be? The man was very much the greater part of The Fray, the instance - really nothing more than a few moments in the timeline of things - when I was at my peak, in my prime, and could spend hours invigorated by the exchanges coming fast and strong over the internet, turning left and right, a parry here a thrust there, moved to defense then attack like some improbable swordsman from a Hollwood 1930’s swashbuckler so furious was that intellectual exchange. I’ve never had anything like it, no such exhilaration.
And now Irving is gone. How can this be? And, I know the simple fact that he’s gone is the last act of The Fray. I’m more than sad to see the final close, especially so in this way by the simple fact - Irving Snodgrass is gone.
So sad. 28181. arkymalarky - 9/3/2014 2:19:14 AM "The man was very much the greater part of The Fray, the instance - really nothing more than a few moments in the timeline of things - when I was at my peak, in my prime, and could spend hours invigorated by the exchanges coming fast and strong over the internet, turning left and right, a parry here a thrust there, moved to defense then attack like some improbable swordsman from a Hollwood 1930’s swashbuckler so furious was that intellectual exchange. I’ve never had anything like it, no such exhilaration."
That really beautifully captures the essence of what is gone and what Irv was to the Fray. 28182. judithathome - 9/3/2014 5:05:56 PM Indeed. 28183. bhelpuri - 9/4/2014 5:04:53 AM Loar!
A very nice tribute + reminiscence of an Internet time and experience that seems near-fictional, but yes did exist. 28184. Wombat - 9/4/2014 9:11:04 PM O tempora, O mores! ScottLoar!!! Sometimes, when I have nothing better to do, I revisit the Fray and Mote archives to reread our exchanges.
28185. ScottLoar - 9/5/2014 1:01:00 AM So do I, Wombat, so do I. 28186. iiibbb - 9/5/2014 7:30:52 AM 1 i am up late with insomnia
2 you guys are weird.
3 I often feel like an interloper, but not just here.... In most interactions. There's probably a name for that. 28187. ScottLoar - 9/5/2014 12:36:35 PM Ha! Four years in high school and I did not go the school cafeteria for lunch, so shy I was, sure that others would look and stare at me. And it was all of my own imagination so self-centered I was.
Still, to this day I often have to affect a persona just to get by. 28188. thoughtful - 9/5/2014 1:42:39 PM I'm so terribly sorry to hear about Irving. He was a special guy...I have the throw he gave me from Indonesia and think of him every time I see it...having met him at the party at TMac's house oh so many years ago.
RIP, dear Irving. May your soul move on to even better and brighter things. 28189. iiibbb - 9/5/2014 3:27:31 PM I'm shy to a point. I was teased a lot in High School. I developed a very acerbic wit, which was tempered slightly when I joined a club populated by misfits in college.
I've accepted that I'm not like most people--- my closest friends say I am a hard read and that the people that don't know me well have me pegged all wrong. I'm very introverted except with people I know very well.
I'm still shy but I don't take shit. 28190. judithathome - 9/5/2014 4:12:07 PM Well, you seem to be able to vent from time to time to us and usually people don't feel comfortable doing that sort of thing to complete strangers. I think you're very much a part of the group here and though we might get "testy" from time to time, I'd miss you if you went away.
I fell as though I know you pretty well...as well as any person can know another when we're basically just words on paper. 28191. judithathome - 9/5/2014 4:13:09 PM Well...not on "paper", actually...ha! 28192. arkymalarky - 9/5/2014 4:49:04 PM Interesting exchange. I don't really know what I am anymore. I hated high school. I did not fit in and thought people were cliquish and unfriendly. It wasn't until years later that I realized a lot of it came from me. A lot of people I disliked or didn't think about in high school I know now to be really good people. I'm not shy but I'm not very social. And I absolutely cringe at certain social expectations in which I see absolutely no point. I also have a low tolerance for people who are easily offended or purposely offensive. Mose tells me I have no filter. Some of that comes from teaching for 34 years, some of that has always been my personality, and some of it frankly has been a result of my interactions here.
I feel like the Fray helped me more than anything in my rural education activism, statewide organizing, and working with various school boards, superintendents, and legislators in association with that activism. But I don't have a lot of patience, so when people start taking things in a direction I don't like I pick up my marbles and go home rather than work within the group. I got off the bus when the state rural ed advocacy group I cofounded decided to convert Mission Possible into an acronym. I didn't even say how stupid it was. I thought it should be obvious. Since it wasn't, I just quit without any explanation. But I'm very loyal to people and places. 28193. arkymalarky - 9/5/2014 4:52:10 PM The Fray was also indispensable in this nfluencing how I approached and presented my own research and worked with other researchers. 28194. arkymalarky - 9/5/2014 4:52:49 PM influencing 28195. arkymalarky - 9/5/2014 4:54:50 PM one of these days I need to make myself a timeline. I can't remember what falls when in IRL and here. And I can't remember how the two worlds correlate. 28196. iiibbb - 9/5/2014 5:11:26 PM Judith--
You guys are safe and tolerant. This is a low volume website. I've done forays into Democratic Underground for instance. I apparently do not play well with others (not that being pasted as a troll on a site full of trolls is a blemish in my opinion).
Basically I like you people. I'm still anonymous... I almost met Arky once when I spent the night or two in Little Rock for a conference, but didn't follow through on the invitation.... that was a stressful time. 28197. iiibbb - 9/5/2014 5:33:48 PM Arky. I'm not anything in that I don't identify with groups of people.
I'm very self aware/self analyzing. I'm ADHD according to the specifications. I've decided I probably have a mild anxiety disorder - not sure what a therapist could really do for me. So I have hard time with people I don't know without some sort of context. If I get going, I'm very open because I'm not embarrassed about who I am... all that peer ridicule made me pretty immune to criticism and has given me a long fuse... until it's time to vent. I'm not crippled by any of this, I just keep to myself while being keenly aware of events, but not feelings, circling the air around me. If I'm actually aware of someone's feelings/boundaries, I'm actually very sensitive to them - unless I'm angry (which isn't much). I'm the last person to exclude someone from a group unless they're an asshole.
In spite of this, at work I am a great team player and very supportive of the people I work with.
I love children. I have a deep well of patience when it comes to children and noise (from happy to sad to mad).
I'm not in a political party--- although Republicans and Libertarians are certifiably loony right now.
I'm agnostic, identify Christian, can't relate to churches, but I'm not an atheist either (mostly because vocal atheists irritate me as much as any religious person).
I don't like crowds, but I don't have a phobia about it. I don't go to the fair. I don't go to concerts.
I'm pro-rights but for some reason I find activism to be a turn-off (usually because the lead activists are right for the wrong reasons in my mind - and that usually makes me a quiet ally). 28198. arkymalarky - 9/5/2014 6:36:28 PM It sounds like we have a lot in common. I don't mind crowds, though. I hate groups, meetings, conferences. Unless I'm in charge. I don't like feeling I'm being held captive. 28199. iiibbb - 9/5/2014 7:34:38 PM I don't need to be in charge, but I usually try to stick with good leaders.
I'm flexible.
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