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28365. wonkers2 - 6/22/2006 12:59:12 AM William Sloan Coffin
"Every nation makes decisions based on self interest and then defends them in the name of morality"
"Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat."
"Love measures our stature: the more we love the bigger we are. There is no smaller package in all the world than that of a man all wrapped up in himself."
Harper's July 2006 28366. jexster - 6/22/2006 5:09:41 PM 'End Times' Religious Groups Want Apocalypse Soon
'End times' religious groups want apocalypse sooner than later, and they're relying on high tech -- and red heifers -- to hasten its arrival.
That crowd got left behind alright. When the Almighty was passing out the brains, His just-in-time inventory system broke down.
 28367. jexster - 6/30/2006 4:22:47 AM If at first you don't succeed - Fr. Michael as I reported tried and failed in his shot at Diocesan...sheesh we might lose our rector
From a report on the four Episcopal dioceses seeking communion with another archbishopric
In fact, on Wednesday, the Diocese of Newark, N.J., nominated as a finalist to become its next bishop the Very Rev. Canon Michael Barlowe, who is gay and lives with his partner in San Francisco. Barlowe, congregational development officer for the Diocese of California, declined comment through a spokesman.
 28368. wonkers2 - 7/20/2006 3:22:06 AM How can anyone say they take the Bible literally?Leviticus on Slavery 28369. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 5:50:19 PM Since Islam is in the news so much these days, I am going to post some pictures and information about it.
This picture was sent to Dr. Homa Darabi from a woman in Iran.This picture was taken 20 days after she was lashed fifty times for being present at a family gathering where men other than her father and brother were present. Her crime? She is a single woman. It is forbidden for women to be present under the same roof with men other than their close relatives (father, brother and son) without proper hijab.
What is a woman's role in Islam? What are her rewards and punishments?
According to theologians , the husband has the right to administer corporal punishment to his wife if she:
1. Refuses to make herself beautiful for him;
2. Refuses to meet his sexual demands;
3. Leaves the house without permission or without any legitimate reason recognized by law; or
4. Neglects her religious duties.
[A hadith attributes the following saying to the Prophet: "Hang up your whip where your wife can see it." There are a number of other hadiths that contradict this one. In those, Muhammad explicitly forbids men to beat their wives - in which case the Prophet himself is contradicting what the Koran, enshrining divine law, permits.] remember the principle of nasikh....
28370. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 5:51:00 PM Life for the observany Muslim woman:
I am a Moslem woman. I have no face. I have no identity. At age 9, based on lunar year (a lunar year is twelve months of 28 days each or 336 days) or, when I am actually 8 years and 8 months old, I am considered an adult. Being an adult means that I have to adhere with Islamic laws as stated below.
I have to pray five times a day, fast one month out of the year and cover myself from head to toe in yards of black fabric. I am eligible to be married and can be punished for any wrong doing. I can be incarcerated and, if needed, executed for my crimes, even political ones.
Islam's law - that Allah sent down to his messenger Muhammad - came to announce that women (exactly like men) are full human beings. Women (like men) are therefore required to follow the way appointed by Allah.
"A woman (like a man) is therefore obligated with all three degrees of this religion: Islam (outward submission to Allah), iman (inward faith in Allah), and ihsan (perfection of worship of Allah)".
"Women have such honorable rights as obligations, but men have a (single) degree above them". The Koran 2:228
"Men are the managers of the affairs of women because Allah has preferred men over women and women were expended of their Rights". The Koran 4:34
Islam believes and promotes only one relationship between male and female and that is the relation of lust.
"If a man and a woman are alone in one place, the third person present is the devil". Prophet Mohammed
I am not allowed to swim, ski, ride a bike, dance, learn to play musical instruments, practice gymnastics, or any other sport. I am not even permitted to watch men play sports, either in the stadium and/or on television.
I am not permitted to participate in Olympic games.
From age 7, I am segregated from all males in and out of my extended family.
My father, grandfather, uncles, brothers or my male cousins are not allowed to be present at any ceremonies for my accomplishments. They will not be allowed to participate in my birthday parties.
I have to study under female teachers and professors. However, since women of prior generations were not allowed to go to school, there are not that many qualified women teachers and professors. Male professors must teach me from behind a wall.
I am to be treated by female doctors. Go to female dentists. And if there are none, then I have to go without or I must be examined through some sort of divider.
I am not allowed to practice birth control or have abortions, even if carrying or having a child means I have to die.
My worth is based on the Islamic Laws of Retribution, 24th edition, December 1982, as half of a man. It doesn't matter who I am, how educated I am, and what earning potential I may have in my life. My worth is half of a man, any man.
28371. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 5:52:37 PM According to clauses 33 and 91 of the law in respect, Qasas (The Islamic Retribution Bill) and its boundaries, the value of woman is considered only half as much as the value of a man.
Article 1: dieh or blood money paid to the victim or next of kin for as compensation for bodily injury or murder of a relative.
The Islamic Law of Retribution
In the old Islamic laws, recently placed into practice by the Islamic Republic of Iran, the worth of a man's life is equal to the market value of 100 camels or 200 cows and that of a woman is equal to half of the man's, 50 camels or 100 cows.
The clause number 6 regarding the dieh (cash value of the fine) states that the cash fine for murdering a woman intentionally or unintentionally is half as much as for a man. The same clause adds that if a man intentionally murders a woman and the guardian of the woman himself is not able to pay half of the Dieh (the value of 50 camels or 100 cows, the difference between the value of a man to that of a woman's life) to the murderer, the murderer will be exempted from retribution.
New Legal Standing: Pursuant to article 85 of the constitution, the Islamic penal code was implemented in December 1981. According to article 300, blood money or dieh, a sum paid to the next of kin as compensation for the murder of a relative, is twice as much in the case of a murdered man as in the case of a woman. The number of witnesses required to prove a crime is higher if the witnesses are female. For example, article 237 of the penal code states that first degree murder must be proven by testimony of two just men and evidence for second-degree murder or manslaughter requires the testimony of two just men, or one just man and two just women, or of one just man and the accuser.
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It goes on and on. 28372. Macnas - 7/25/2006 5:56:35 PM Whats that got to do with the price of bacon? 28373. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 5:57:23 PM It shows how oppressive it is and how women are viewed in Islam. 28374. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 5:58:27 PM People rally about how loving and democratic Islam is, and that is just baloney. For the observant it is militant, oppressive and violent. 28375. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:00:29 PM That's one faith, and yours is another.
So, bet you feel lucky you made the smart choice eh? 28376. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:01:31 PM So, you want it outlawed? altered to be more like christianity? 28377. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 6:02:36 PM Macnas,
I want to talk about something other than Christianity. I hope that you all critique it as much as you do Christianity. I look forward to learning about Islam rather than being politically correct.
As for not choosing Islam, yes, I am glad I am not a Muslim. 28378. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 6:04:05 PM Let's talk about the treatment of women, or the opinion of infidels, why it was historially labeled as the conquering religion and why they hate Jews. 28379. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:08:48 PM Well, I'm sorry jen. I have no interest in the Muslim faith, either to support it or slate it.
I was raised catholic, in a priest ridden repressive state. That wasn't much fun either, and that was christianity.
Before you say it, oh yes it is.
But, your christian faith is probably much better than the one I practised, so, lucky you again.
28380. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:14:29 PM Catholisism: Unmarried mothers, put into workhouse prisons and made to undure years of forced labour while the children were sold to rich people. Married women treated as breeding stock.
Non-believers, hanged and burned at various stages in history.
It is the only true religion, everyone else is a pagan or a heretic.
And the jews, well, plenty catholics hate them too. 28381. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 6:19:40 PM Macnas,
We need a break from Christianity. Let's talk about the religion that is provoking the world today and taking over. 28382. arkymalarky - 7/25/2006 6:57:43 PM Like Stephen Colbert, one of us needs a Muslim friend to come in and give a perspective from someone who actually practices Islam. 28383. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/25/2006 7:04:36 PM We need a break from Christianity. Let's talk about the religion that is provoking the world today and taking over.
You mean neoconservative, authoritarian Judeo-Christian Corporatism that exploits most of the world's resources for fun and profit while it derides global stewardship and human justice?
That religion? 28384. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 7:41:36 PM Is that a religion or the label you attribute to everyone who does not share your beliefs?
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