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28373. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 5:57:23 PM It shows how oppressive it is and how women are viewed in Islam. 28374. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 5:58:27 PM People rally about how loving and democratic Islam is, and that is just baloney. For the observant it is militant, oppressive and violent. 28375. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:00:29 PM That's one faith, and yours is another.
So, bet you feel lucky you made the smart choice eh? 28376. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:01:31 PM So, you want it outlawed? altered to be more like christianity? 28377. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 6:02:36 PM Macnas,
I want to talk about something other than Christianity. I hope that you all critique it as much as you do Christianity. I look forward to learning about Islam rather than being politically correct.
As for not choosing Islam, yes, I am glad I am not a Muslim. 28378. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 6:04:05 PM Let's talk about the treatment of women, or the opinion of infidels, why it was historially labeled as the conquering religion and why they hate Jews. 28379. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:08:48 PM Well, I'm sorry jen. I have no interest in the Muslim faith, either to support it or slate it.
I was raised catholic, in a priest ridden repressive state. That wasn't much fun either, and that was christianity.
Before you say it, oh yes it is.
But, your christian faith is probably much better than the one I practised, so, lucky you again.
28380. Macnas - 7/25/2006 6:14:29 PM Catholisism: Unmarried mothers, put into workhouse prisons and made to undure years of forced labour while the children were sold to rich people. Married women treated as breeding stock.
Non-believers, hanged and burned at various stages in history.
It is the only true religion, everyone else is a pagan or a heretic.
And the jews, well, plenty catholics hate them too. 28381. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 6:19:40 PM Macnas,
We need a break from Christianity. Let's talk about the religion that is provoking the world today and taking over. 28382. arkymalarky - 7/25/2006 6:57:43 PM Like Stephen Colbert, one of us needs a Muslim friend to come in and give a perspective from someone who actually practices Islam. 28383. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/25/2006 7:04:36 PM We need a break from Christianity. Let's talk about the religion that is provoking the world today and taking over.
You mean neoconservative, authoritarian Judeo-Christian Corporatism that exploits most of the world's resources for fun and profit while it derides global stewardship and human justice?
That religion? 28384. Jenerator - 7/25/2006 7:41:36 PM Is that a religion or the label you attribute to everyone who does not share your beliefs? 28385. wonkers2 - 7/26/2006 12:27:21 AM As I have heard, the Bible is full of contradictions. Here are some. 28386. Jenerator - 7/26/2006 12:35:00 AM Westerners are good at finding excuses for the Muslim world. After all, Palestinians have been killed for years by the Israelis. After all, most Muslims live in extreme poverty. After all, European powers colonized their countries. After all, America exploits their oil. After all, the Crusades were evil and cruel. (This, of course, does not set the record straight: Muslims conducted their own crusades against Christians; Muslims colonized countries that were independent; Muslims exploited the riches of Africa and Central Asia; Muslims were wealthy when Europeans were poor).
What Westerners fail to realize is that over the last decade the tables have been turned, and it has been consistently the Muslims who have been involved in religious violence around the world: Muslims versus Hindus in India, Muslims versus Jews in Palestine, Muslims versus Christians in Nigeria, Muslims versus Christians and Animists in Sudan, and Muslims versus Christians, Hindus and Chinese in Indonesia, etc etc. Today, there is no Christian terrorism and there is no Buddhism terrorism. Today, there is only Islamic terrorism. You never hear a Christian say that all Muslims should die. A Christian who said so in public would be immediately silenced by the authorities and maybe arrested. You can hear Muslims ask for the death of Christians, Hindus, etc pretty much in every Islamic country. They do it publicly. You can see their faces in tv. Muezzins, imams and ayatollahs do it in the mosques and on tv. Nobody is stopping them.
Westerners fail to see a fundamental feature of modern Islamic behavior: whenever they obtain something, Muslims assume that they owe it to Allah (and to their faith in Allah). Whenever a Western country gives them something or does something for them, Muslims don't thank the West: they thank Allah. For example, if the West deported all the Israelis and gave Israel back to the Arabs, the Arabs would thank Allah, not the West. The Arabs would assume that it was their faith in Allah, and their fight in the name of Allah, that gave them Israel. In a matter of days, they would start arguing about something else: Cyprus, Sicily, Turkey, whatever. Devout Muslims never see the good in the actions of the others: any good comes from Allah, not from the West. Devout Muslims will always see the evil in the actions of the West: the evil comes from the West and is due to the fact that Westerners are infidels.
28387. Adam Selene - 7/26/2006 2:18:56 AM Interesting. Jenn brings honest critique of muslim practices, and the rest of you instead find fault with her glass-house religion.
So... is piling-on still a penalty? So what if christianity has faults... does that simple fact mean muslims are sin-free?
I agree with Jenn in one sense... it'ss fair gaim to analyze islam wrt commonly accepted standards of human decency without dragging christianity into it as a whipping boy. 28388. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/26/2006 3:48:03 AM Is that a religion or the label you attribute to everyone who does not share your beliefs?
No Jen, it's what the people running this country truly believe in or they would never have gone into Iraq and they would never tolerate what the Israelis are doing to Lebanon.
And I'm not defending zealot Muslims or zealot Christians, btw, I'm only addressing your ignorant support of a corrupt administration. It may seem like "piling on" because others here may share my dismay of your Christian support of murder and mayhem because the other side does it.
If that's Christianity, then I want no part of it! 28389. iiibbb - 7/26/2006 3:59:17 AM Plenty of Christian sects that marginalize women... Jews too... and I have plenty of Moslem friends who would never do that to their spouse.
Some people do some pretty screwed up stuff in the name of their religion. 28390. Jenerator - 7/26/2006 4:33:08 AM Thanks Adam.
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So, Wizard and iiibbb,
Let's talk about the tenets of the Islamic faith or the hadiths. Should we first address how women are to be treated and are treated in Islam or should we talk about infidels: who are they, what should be done about them, what are Muslims to do with them or to them??
You pick. 28391. judithathome - 7/26/2006 5:41:56 AM I agree with Jenn in one sense... it'ss fair gaim to analyze islam wrt commonly accepted standards of human decency without dragging christianity into it as a whipping boy.
Not to put too fine a point on it but Jen is the one who first said "We need a break from Christianity" today. Many's the time in years past when people would beg her to discuss something other than HER faith or not relate every change of topic back to HER faith so I find it humorous you, Adam, are acting as though we're piling on.
We're just in shock. 28392. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 7/26/2006 6:00:01 AM Address my previous post, Jen–before we argue over the seating on the Titanic.
I'm taking about doing the Christian thing wrt our foreign policy. I'm talking about removing the cinder from our American eye before casting stones, yadda yadda. .
Address my points first and I'll address yours.
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