28572. jexster - 9/11/2006 7:05:28 PMThey have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at!
al-Qur'an 26:6
Adhan Makka
.mp328573. wonkers2 - 9/22/2006 3:05:00 PM Let's be fair. Not all priests are pedophiles. Some are thieves. 28574. Ulgine Barrows - 9/23/2006 6:37:29 AM 28563. Jenerator - 8/14/2006 4:01:02 PM
Anyone else hear about what they're teaching and chanting in the mosques of Iran right now? That Iran will nuke Israel soon and usher in the 12th Imam. Evidently, they're claiming that Iran HAS nuclear weapons and is planning on using them.
Armageddon, folks.
Yeah, let's kill them before they kill us, eh, Jenerator?
What is the difference between a Christian mission and an Islam jihad?
28575. judithathome - 9/23/2006 5:44:58 PM The Christian Crusades got better PR, that's the difference. 28576. Jenerator - 9/24/2006 5:10:22 AM That is a fascinating thought. What would have happened if the Turks had been stopped? Better yet, what would have happened if the Jews obeyed God when they entered Canaan? 28577. alistairConnor - 9/24/2006 10:28:31 AM What would have happened if the Turks had been stopped?
You mean, like if the Crusaders had allied with Byzantium instead of weakening Christendom by sacking Constantinople?
(The religious component of the Crusades is exagerated. They were mostly an opportunity for looting and empire-building.)
As historical conjectures go, this is a pretty far-fetched one. The Byzantine empire was economically and militarily weak, its territory constantly retreating. They were overcome by more vigorous newcomers, like the Arabs in Spain.
I don't get the bit about Jews obeying God. Well OK, this is a religion thread, not a history thread, so I suppose supernatural conjecture is allowed. 28578. alistairConnor - 9/24/2006 10:38:44 AM I have read about religious interference in the recent Swedish elections.
It appears that an extremist protestant sect, the Plymouth Brethren, have been spending millions to promote the right wing alliance that won a narrow victory last week :
The Brethren have paid for ads in some of Sweden's biggest newspapers, they have done direct marketing in mailboxes in many parts of Sweden, they have been leafleting and put flyers on cars in many places.
I wonder what Swedish electoral law says about this sort of activity.
This group has pulled the same stunt in a number of countries, there is an ongoing scandal about it in NZ because the right-wing party that they supported actually knew about their intended campaign beforehand, and there have been challenges to its legality.
But surely, religious groups have a right to lobby electors like any other special interest group? (they promote very conservative patriarchal values).
Well, yes, but :
* the money generally flows in from another country (into Sweden from England, it appears)
* the brethren are opposed to democracy, and their members are forbidden to vote.
Is this a scandal in Sweden? I don't know. Perhaps Pelle could fill us in? 28579. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2006 8:05:17 PM Total nonsense.
Are you into conspiracy theories these days, Alistair? Good luck. There are plenty to choose from. 28580. alistairConnor - 9/24/2006 9:28:17 PM That's a bit short, Pelle. I suspect this means that you've never heard about it.
Or are you denying that the Brethren backed the Swedish Alliance?
They are well-known for interfering in elections all over the world, whenever they feel they have a strategic opportunity. There is absolutely no ambiguity about it, they admit it themselves when they are caught at it. In NZ at the moment, the leader of the right wing party is, amazingly, refusing to distance himself from them, although they are getting bad press (they apparently set private investigators to dig up dirt on politicians of the left, and the Prime Minister's husband). A recent article from the NZ press.
They are also well-documented as having done the same in Australia (they love John Howard).
I'm not saying that religious groups should not be allowed to play politics. But when it's done covertly, by people who don't believe in democracy, then it's a potential problem. 28581. wonkers2 - 9/24/2006 9:46:17 PM Maybe he's a supporter?? 28582. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2006 8:19:17 AM This "news" originated with a blog and got blown up by one of the tabloids here. It never made its way into the mainstream media. The Brethren have about 400 members in Sweden, most of them in small rural places. 28583. alistairconnor - 9/25/2006 9:18:41 AM Are you saying that it been disproved, then, that they spent millions supporting the right? Or are you asserting that it's no big deal if they did?
Or are you just assuming that if there was a real story, the mainstream media would have picked up on it? That would be rather lazy of you.
As you know, Pelle, there are lots of events that never make it into the news. There is no need to postulate a conspiracy to explain this fact; nor is there any justification for assuming that anything that anything which is not widely reported is not real.
The fact that there are so few Brethren in Sweden only makes their interference more egrerious, in view of the fact that the money is allegedly coming in from overseas.
The thing that I find most disturbing about the methods of this particular fundamentalist international (there is indeed a conspiracy, if you like to call it that, but it's fact, not theory) is its underhand efficacy.
When the Russian or Albanian communist parties used to fund their sister organisations around the world, everyone knew about it, it was a standing joke, and the electoral impact of the money was negligeable. But the Brethren, instead of supporting a party which accurately reflects their ideals (which would put them on the extreme right, anywhere in the world), they choose to aid the more conservative side in closely-fought contests. This is, in practice, far more subversive.
That's not to say that the Swedish right is compromised by the fact that these extremists support them (though it would be interesting to know whether there were contacts : there usually are, in the Brethren modus operandi).
Would it be news, Pelle, if it were alleged that a Wahabi organisation, or Hezbollah, for example, had materially supported the Swedish left? 28584. Jenerator - 9/25/2006 12:16:53 PM If it doesn't matter to Pelle, it didn't happen.
Learn this Alistair, it'll save you much time and effort. He is the arbiter of what 'is'. 28585. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2006 6:09:14 PM What I'm saying, Alistair, is that advertisements and leaflets with extreme right-wing contents appeared in some provincial papers and towns. There is no evidence that this would have cost millions, except, perhaps, in Zimbabwian dollars. The blogger I spoke of found one of the leaflets tucked onto the windshield of his car. He wrote about it and wondered who might be the originator because it was signed by an unknown organization calling itself 'Nordas'. One of his readers suggested the Plymouth Brethren and it took off from there. The tabloid, whose watcher of obscure blogs had picked up the story, claimed to have sent a team to England where they found an abandoned office marked 'Nordas Sweden Ltd.' in a dilapidated industrial area in Liverpool and a purported representative who wouldn't comment on the matter. It was a one-day story. When nobody else took the bait it was dropped.
Personally, I think that the name 'Nordas' associates more easily to Nordic Asatru than to the Plymouth Brethren.
28586. jexster - 10/6/2006 8:17:14 PM The Amish victims of modern-day western values are exemplars of Christian charity....70x7 forgivenesss of the murders of their kids 28587. arkymalarky - 10/7/2006 12:16:01 AM I've just been so in awe of them with all this coverage. 28588. Jenerator - 10/7/2006 6:46:28 PM I just can't believe how much random brutality is going on. The Amish shooting is the epitome of evil. 28589. wonkers2 - 10/8/2006 1:19:17 AM Does that mean you support tighter gun control? 28590. jexster - 10/8/2006 1:24:09 AM I support the right to bear arms in Oakland-Alameda Coliseum for the duration
Don't show your face around here Capn 28591. Jenerator - 10/8/2006 3:17:06 PM Wonkers,
How about we enforce the rules we currently have!
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