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28627. jexster - 10/30/2006 4:55:58 AM The Catholic Church of course rejects Jen's perverse understanding of Islam and Christianity, calling for a dialogue of mutual respect and understanding - something which Jen is manifestly incapable.
That's because she's a heretic.
She'd have been burned at the stake 500 years ago. 28628. jexster - 10/30/2006 5:06:14 AM Medina and Mecca: No Compulsion in Religion
Juan Cole has pointed out what countless other scholars have - something Jen can't quite seem to comprehend..
At least she knows the difference between Medina and Mecca:
He notes that the text he discusses, a polemic against Islam by a Byzantine emperor, cites Qur'an 2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion." Benedict maintains that this is an early verse, when Muhammad was without power.
His allegation is incorrect. Surah 2 is a Medinan surah revealed when Muhammad was already established as the leader of the city of Yathrib (later known as Medina or "the city" of the Prophet). The pope imagines that a young Muhammad in Mecca before 622 (lacking power) permitted freedom of conscience, but later in life ordered that his religion be spread by the sword. But since Surah 2 is in fact from the Medina period when Muhammad was in power, that theory does not hold water.
In fact, the Qur'an at no point urges that religious faith be imposed on anyone by force. This is what it says about the religions:
' [2:62] Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians-- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. '
28629. concerned - 10/30/2006 6:19:41 AM Re. 28613 -
No, my intention is not to 'pass', if I can get the Mote to accept my posting. Btw, did you know that you are the first person in the half century of my life to get me to read any but the shortest books in the Bible all the way through in a single sitting? It didn't happen during the five years I went to a private Christian school. It didn't happen in two years I went to a Baptist church. Are you proud of yourself?:) 28630. concerned - 10/30/2006 6:31:06 AM Btw, why should any Muslim, since the Old Testament which is holy to Islam guarantees Palestine to Jews, try to deny Jews Palestine? 28631. concerned - 10/30/2006 6:52:42 AM The Book of Joshua is a narrative of the Jewish conquest of Canaan at around 1400 BC which was purportedly promised to them by their God during the time of Abraham.
I don't see where anything in Joshua incites modern Jews, or particularly Christians against those of other religions in any way whatsoever. Even at the time, Joshua offered the various kingdoms (cities) in Canaan the opportunity to surrender or leave peacefully. Some took him up on his offer and coexisted with the Jews for hundreds of years. 28632. alistairconnor - 10/30/2006 10:34:51 AM Yes Con, I'm truly proud. If your reading enables you go beyond your shallow misconceptions about our judaeo-christian heritage, I will be even prouder.
But very surprised. 28633. alistairconnor - 10/30/2006 10:42:18 AM I don't see where anything in Joshua incites modern Jews, or particularly Christians against those of other religions in any way whatsoever.
Well, shall we compare apples to apples?
Either the Old Testament is relevant to modern Christians and Jews, or it isn't. Likewise for the Koran and modern Moslems, let's avoid double standards.
But I really haven't started looking at Joshua yet. Would you care to respond to my posts on Genesis Message # 28603 and Numbers Message # 28604, specifically relating to your suggestion :
Let's discuss the " verses of Christianity or Judaism" that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths. 28634. jexster - 10/30/2006 7:13:38 PM 10/30/06 Islamic Fascisms?
Defense and the National Interest
By Ismael Hossein-Zadeh.
Authoritarianism comes in many forms, each presenting its unique threat to democracy. If, as Sun Tzu insisted, knowing the threat is half the battle (knowing oneself is the other), it is important to understand their similarities and their differences. 28635. jexster - 10/30/2006 7:14:28 PM President George W. Bush and the neoconservative handlers of his administration have added a new bogeyman to their long and evolving list of enemies: "Islamic fascism," also called "Islamofascism." This wonton flinging of the word "fascism" in reference to radical movements and leaders of the Muslim world, however, is not only inaccurate and oxymoronic, but it is, indeed, also ironic. Of course, it is also offensive and inflammatory and, therefore, detrimental to international understanding and stability. 28636. concerned - 10/30/2006 8:49:03 PM Re 28633 -
I'm afraid it is you who are attempting to compare apples and oranges by conflating Biblical narrative with inflammatory Koranic and Hadithic texts.
With your making such errors as the above, I have doubts that you can even even rise from your demonstrated complete lack of comprehension to shallow misconceptions. Unless you can do better/be more honest, it's pointless to continue this discussion. 28637. alistairConnor - 10/30/2006 11:52:49 PM I'm disappointed that you have conceded so quickly, by refusing to discuss the verses of Christianity or Judaism that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths. (Genesis: Message # 28603 and Numbers: Msg num=28604> were merely my opening shots). 28638. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:26:13 AM Re. Genesis, Numbers:
These, again, are narratives and apply only to the ancient Hebrews from a time approximately 4000 years ago. You are not showing a trace of intelligence, honesty or proportion.
Why not try to find something, anything, in Judaism or Christianity that is at all comparable to the strictures imposed by modern Islam on its believers?
You have done nothing to make your point so far. 28639. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:27:11 AM 'almost 4000 years ago' 28640. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:34:08 AM AC - however much contempt you may have for Jewish religious beliefs and attitudes keep in mind that they are the polar opposites of the more militant Muslims wrt proselytization. 28641. concerned - 10/31/2006 12:56:57 AM Btw, that 'fish' in the barrel you thought you were shooting - that was your foot.
I don't know how you can think pointing to individual instances of questionable behavior over 3000 years ago in the history of the Jews proves anything in today's world, because every thing you have presented so far has not much bearing on Jewish and none at all on Christian attitudes towards those of other faiths today, and none of it is at all prescriptive in the sense that the relevant passages in the Kor(a)n and Hadiths are. 28642. alistairConnor - 10/31/2006 1:02:31 AM You set the goalposts, Concerned.
You didn't think I could find "verses of Christianity or Judaism that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths."
Now you want to move them.
Am I surprised? 28643. concerned - 10/31/2006 1:12:08 AM You didn't find any, in fact, that exhort the believer to lie to, cheat, defraud and murder those of other faiths.
Be so good as to note the present tense, please. That means now, not 1500 years ago. Not 3000 years ago. Now. 28644. concerned - 10/31/2006 1:13:45 AM How's your foot feeling with all those holes in it, AC? 28645. concerned - 10/31/2006 1:17:42 AM I have to concede that you have definitely found examples where the Hebrews have mistreated others in such ways in the past. My apologies if you misunderstood what I was asking. 28646. Jenerator - 10/31/2006 2:13:05 AM Jexster,
28624. jexster - 10/30/2006 4:41:33 AM
No he doesn't Jen...that's a lie.
No - *who* doesn't? Doesn't what?
I am not going to keep posting the same material that proves it
For as many sites as you link, I can find equal number that prove what I saw. So....?
I have done it several times now
I have provided links as well.
The issue (in a nutshell) is that you are regurgitating bottom feeder swill that right wing Jews have passed off as authentic muslim scholarship
Who are these Jewish sources that I have been sourcing and who are these operatives I have been talking to? Are the Muslims I know all covert Jewish spies?
You are republishing lies and bigotry
What lies?? The principle of nasikh exists as do the bloody verses. You're mental, jexster.
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