29077. jexster - 9/8/2008 2:18:26 AMIn the greatest city named after Saint Francis, San Francisco, CA, the first exact replica of the Porziuncola Chapel is being built. This project has the full cooperation of the friars in Assisi and is under the high patronage of His Eminence Cardinal William Levada, Archbishop Emeritus of San Francisco, Archbishop of San Francisco, George Niederauer and Angela Alioto, SFO. The new chapel will be a center for pilgrimages and for peace initiatives for the whole U.S. and for the whole world.
Wikipedia
Gotta learn to READ THE FINE PRINT
I have to send in a written RSVP for Porziuncola Shrine Dedication at the end of this month which must be received by Wednesday. Almost missed reading that little detail
The invite is from Newsom Angela and the Archbishop with "sponsors" from Episcopal Bps Andrus, Swing to the Buddhists, the Jews and the goddamn Muslims. Ratzinger's Ratzinger, Cardinal Levada, leads the luminaries
I actually have already been there but don't specifically recall the Basilica but do remember my grandmother showing me the Porziuncola with hushed and reverent tones
National Shrine of Saint Francis of Assisi
The exciting Renaissance Project will recreate the little church that Saint Francis himself rebuilt. He named this little church the "Porziuncola", meaning "little corner of the world", that is, his "portion".
It was here that Saint Francis began to understand his vocation to follow the Gospel and give up all worldly goods, pray for and advocate peace, and of course, take care of the poor and sick. The Porziuncola is also the place where he founded the Franciscan Order of the Friars Minor in 1209, "establishing here his home".29078. jexster - 9/13/2008 1:55:49 AM Spiritual Warfare Continues
Poor Clares
EWTN
29079. jexster - 9/14/2008 3:01:48 AM Alistair leads Te Deum
Notre Dame
9/12/08
29080. jexster - 9/21/2008 7:01:43 PM In case Jen missed this..
I star or at least an extra
Corpus Christi Procession..not Texas either
29081. Jenerator - 9/21/2008 9:22:41 PM Still worshipping that splinter, eh?
When does Christ actually figure into your life, Jexster? 29082. wabbit - 9/21/2008 9:56:58 PM Jexster and Jen,
Can you kindly break down the main differences between Catholicism and Protestantism? The simplistic version, from reading you two, boils down to:
Catholics: big into Mary and the holy trinity
Protestants: all about Christ, not so much about Mary
Catholics: pro-life, period
Protestants: pro-life, depending on the circumstances
Catholics: anti birth control
Protestants: pro birth control, depending
Both: anti sex-education in schools
Catholics: regular confession
Protestants: no formal confession
Both: death-bed conversion is good enough for eternal salvation
Neither seems much interested in how a person actually lives their life. It all boils down to belief in God/Mary/Christ or taking Christ as your personal savior, and everyone else, regardless of how Christ-like they may be in their day-to-day lives, are going straight to hell.
I'm not looking for your individual interpretations, just a basic break-down of the major points.29083. Jenerator - 9/21/2008 10:12:28 PM Wabbit,
I think that your listed differences, though simplistic, are quite accurate. Where I disagree with you, though, is with this:
Neither seems much interested in how a person actually lives their life. It all boils down to belief in God/Mary/Christ or taking Christ as your personal savior, and everyone else, regardless of how Christ-like they may be in their day-to-day lives, are going straight to hell.
For me, and what I have seen, heard, read, been exposed, to, taught and discipled is that how we live our lives is EXTREMELY important! I don't even know where to start in answering you with this. As Christians, we are called to be transformed by Christ and we are to hold every thought and deed captive to the obedience of Christ. We are to daily and continually seek his guidance in all that we do, and we must use the Bible as our plumb line. Now, granted, we are fallible human beings with a tendency for disobedience and stubbornness, but we are called to be light and salt of this world - and we do that by exhibiting compassion and mercy. We are called to share God's word and witness to the world. We are to help equip other Christians through our natural gifts, mature in the scriptures and be wise teachers and parents and members of the community. It's that perpetual war against the flesh that brings us back a step, and it's our stubborn nature and tendency to not rely on the authority of Christ that causes us to do the wrong things. How we live matters, absolutely.
In the scriptures it's made very clear that apart from Christ man is not saved. However, it's ultimately up to God to judge each man's heart. In the meantime, we Christians are called to love on and share the word with nonbelievers if possible.
-----------------------------------------
As for doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants, there are key issues at stake. We have more in common than we do otherwise; however, there are some definite differences as I am sure you know already and have listed above. 29084. Jenerator - 9/21/2008 10:17:05 PM wabbit,
You said-
Catholics: regular confession
Protestants: no formal confession
As Protestants, we do not have to confess to a human on marked days of the calendar or at specific times. We are to daily confess our sins directly to God, not some human who is ordained as an intermediary.
Instead of relying on earthly authority, we confess directly to the God we believe in. Furthermore, part of confession to God is a humbling of the soul that should cause a desire to seek God's will and turn to obedience and away from sin. Rather then repeating incessantly a prayer to God's mother for forgiveness of sins, we ask God directly for his mercy regarding any specific sin, and for guidance in how to overecome that sin and deal with that sin. We also usually seek the guidance and fellowship of a strong believer to remain accountable (in addition to praying to God). 29085. Jenerator - 9/21/2008 10:19:39 PM Catholics: big into Mary and the holy trinity
Protestants: all about Christ, not so much about Mary
Many Catholics (Jex style) worship Mary, They (wrongly) believe that she is without sin, as Christ was, and that she is in heaven starring as Christ's ear peace.
We do not. We see Mary as someone who God found favor with, but not someone who was sinless. She is to be respected as special and the earthly mother of Christ, but she is not equal to Christ and she should NEVER be worshipped. 29086. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:32:59 PM Holy shit Wabbit...that is not possible.."protestantism" as such is not a doctrinally coherent whole...many churches such as Lutherans are "confessional" churches ie they share as fundamental the beliefs set forth in the Nicene Creed and they recognized the Sacraments (at least Baptism and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist). These Churches also share similar beliefs (though not dogmas) about the Virgin Mary with Catholics and Orthodox
Baptists Evangelicals Pentecostals do not
Jen that is CORPUS CHRISTI - BODY OF CHRIST. That is the Blessed Sacrament ..we believe that IS really and truly the Risen Christ
All those are Eucharistic Hymns closing with the Divine Praises and Psalm 117 29087. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:36:17 PM The Catholic Church ("Universal" - One Holy Catholic and Apostolic) is the Church established by Jesus Christ and subsists as such to this day..his Body "born of the Virgin Mary"
The Word Made Flesh
29088. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:36:52 PM
Ring a bell?
Psalm 117
Let us adore forever the most Holy Sacrament.
Praise the Lord, all ye nations: Praise Him, all ye people.
Because His merciful kindness is ever more and more toward us;
And the truth of the Lord endureth for ever. Praise the Lord!
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Let us adore forever the most Holy Sacrament. 29089. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:39:03 PM The Divine Praises
Blessed be God.
Blessed be His Holy Name.
Blessed be Jesus Christ, true God and true man.
Blessed be the name of Jesus.
Blessed be His Most Sacred Heart.
Blessed be Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar.
Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the paraclete.
Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most holy.
Blessed be her holy and Immaculate Conception.
Blessed be her glorious Assumption.
Blessed be the name of Mary, Virgin and Mother.
Blessed be Saint Joseph, her most chaste spouse.
Blessed be God in His angels and in His Saints.
May the heart of Jesus, in the Most Blessed Sacrament, be praised, adored, and loved with grateful affection, at every moment, in all the tabernacles of the world, even to the end of time. Amen.
Benediction Jen
on Corpus Christi - Latin for "Body of Christ"29090. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:39:21 PM toys 29091. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:50:26 PM The simplistic version, from reading you two, boils down to
I can't speak for Jen but that IS quite simplistic!
Catholics: big into Mary and the holy trinity
Protestants: all about Christ, not so much about Mary
(See above)
Catholics: pro-life, period
Protestants: pro-life, depending on the circumstances
Catholics: anti birth control
Protestants: pro birth control, depending
Both: anti sex-education in schools(NO!)
Now THAT is a good illustration of how, to outsiders, the US political debate substitutes for a statement of faith! You'd think Christianity was all about abortion, birth control and homos. Just take a look at the Table of Contents of the RC Catechism to get a flavor of just HOW simplistic! Note the entire first part is based on the Nicene Creed. The 7 Sacraments - Part II. Life in Christ Part III
Catholics: regular confession
Protestants: no formal confession
Both: death-bed conversion is good enough for eternal salvation
One baptism for the remission of sins (the Creed)
Confessional prot churches have "formal" but "general confessions". Auricular confession (confessional w/ priest) is optional, not for Roman Catholics 29092. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:54:49 PM Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anglican, and creedal prots also follow a formal Liturgical Calendar (beginning with Advent) and share a common lectionary
I don't think but I do not know for sure that COGIC's Assemblies of God and other wacko prots..baptists..do 29093. jexster - 9/21/2008 11:59:00 PM All that "Mary stuff" comes in here:
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,...
[Apostle's (Baptismal)Creed]29094. wabbit - 9/22/2008 12:02:08 AM Jen,
In the scriptures it's made very clear that apart from Christ man is not saved. However, it's ultimately up to God to judge each man's heart. In the meantime, we Christians are called to love on and share the word with nonbelievers if possible. Thanks, this is exactly the kind of thing that I was looking for, and that I find confusing. I get to have regular discussion with the local JW's, and have many friends who are Catholic or think of themselves as Christians, but try as I might, I can't get this straight in my mind.
Perhaps I'm dense, but it seems you must take Christ as your personal savior in order to be saved, *except* if God deems you worthy of saving, even if you are a non-believer. So how are you to know? Suppose I try to be the best person I can be, I live by the Golden Rule, but I am an atheist? I'm going to hell, by Christian thought, yes? So however I live my life, it really doesn't matter.
It sounds like the abortion debate to me - you (the royal you, not necessarily YOU specifically) are pro-choice or anti-choice, how can there be exceptions? The unborn have no say in how or by whom they were conceived, so I've never understood the exceptions. If the mother's life is in danger, so be it. If she was raped, or a victim of incest, how can that be used as an excuse to kill an unborn life, if that is your belief?
I do think that there is more in common than not, but the differences seem to cause real problems, between all religions. I just wanted to pick your respective brains while you were having the discussion.29095. jexster - 9/22/2008 12:04:40 AM The Apostles' Creed - The basic creed of "Reformed churches", as most familiarly known, is called the Apostles' Creed. It has received this title because of its great antiquity; it dates from very early times in the Church, a half century or so from the last writings of the New Testament.
29096. jexster - 9/22/2008 12:09:43 AM Perhaps I'm dense, but it seems you must take Christ as your personal savior in order to be saved, *except* if God deems you worthy of saving, even if you are a non-believer
In Catholic teaching God wills ALL people to be saved AND that this will only happen through the Church Triumphant (what exactly that means is a subject of intense theological debate even among Roman Catholic theologians, the most extreme recent statement being Cardinal Ratzinger's DECLARATION: "DOMINUS IESUS"
ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY
OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH
Kinda angels on the head of a pin stuff to me personally
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