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29106. jexster - 9/22/2008 12:45:37 AM Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God. 29107. wabbit - 9/22/2008 12:46:22 AM Some day I'll post a photo of my hands, which will go a long way toward explaining why my posts are always playing catch-up!
Meanwhile, I will continue to impose on everyone's patience! 29108. wabbit - 9/22/2008 12:48:05 AM Jexster, re: 29106, this is another question for me. Is it impossible to have a belief in God that is separate from participating in a formal ceremony? Or is this the royal "church", as in the royal "we"? 29109. jexster - 9/22/2008 12:49:47 AM The Roman Church has a rather structured process they call Rite of Christian Initiation as an Adult (RCIA)
This slideshow makes my point 21903 very well..much better than I did 29110. jexster - 9/22/2008 12:54:26 AM An individual catholic christian is one part of a Body by baptism ...both individual and corporate..part of a body of believers which transcends time...both individual AND corporate, the one inseperable, even meaningless, without the other dimension..
Corpus Christi - Body of Christ 29111. jexster - 9/22/2008 12:57:31 AM Nicene Creed ..with pictures!
29112. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 1:08:02 AM wabbit
I would say the fundamental difference between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism is the basis of authority:
Roman Catholics, as is quite evident by jexter's posts, believe that the Church (i.e. the Roman Catholic hierarchy) is the source of all authority, not to mention the source of grace through the various sacraments meted out by the clergy.
Protestants believe in God's Word, namely the Bible, as the ultimate authority. We believe that God gave us his devinely inspired Holy Scriptures to use as a light and a path.
Protestant denominational differences have to do more with church organization and style of worship than with doctrinal differences, in general. Also there are different points of emphasis among denominations, i.e some are more evangelical while others emphasize social gospel.
29113. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:15:24 AM Roman Catholics, as is quite evident by jexter's posts, believe that the Church (i.e. the Roman Catholic hierarchy) is the source of all authority, not to mention the source of grace through the various sacraments meted out by the clergy.
If Jen wants to tell us what Roman Catholics believe, that's certainly her prerogative. I try not to talk about things I know little or nothing about
Jen apparently feels no such compunction. 29114. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:18:13 AM The beliefs of the Reformed Protestant Churches are found in the Apostles Creed .....and in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches (as well as in the Lutheran Church) those beliefs as amplified by the Council of Nicea.
Now phrases like "meted out" are so obviously perjorative, that they are unworthy of being accepted 29115. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:20:57 AM Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed Catholics and Orthodox have serious doctrinal, dogmatic differences with the Roman Church on the question of papal authority.
Lutherans and Anglicans have entered into a covenant relationship and Jen's comments could not be more erroneous as far as these churches are concerned either 29116. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:21:18 AM Just so no one is misled other than Jenerator 29117. wabbit - 9/22/2008 1:23:56 AM Jexster, I think I understand that Baptism is the individual's acceptance of the primacy of the word of God (either Catholic or Protestant). What is Christening about? Is that meant to salvage those who have not yet reached a point of being able to make a choice? Or does one have to make a conscious choice to accept God, hence leaving the young out of any chance of salvation?
Jen, now we're getting to the nitty-gritty of my interest (well, ok, my specific interest for the moment). The Catholic church relies on the Vatican's authority, hence the Pope's interpretation of the Bible. The various Protestant churches rely on the individual's interpretation of the Bible, trusting in whatever teaching may have been received in Sunday School or at home. Is that close?
I need to ice my hands, but will carry on tomorrow. Sorry for needing the remedial tutoring, but I'm very much enjoying this conversation with you both, it is very interesting and informative for me. Thank you again. 29118. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:36:04 AM "Christening" is a synonym for infant baptism. Godparents and parents christen the child..the baptism is effective and its covenants affirmed as a rite of passage in the sacrament of confirmation where the confirmand accepts the promises made on her behalf at baptism
ie The Baptismal Covenant aka the Apostles Creed
The Baptismal Covenant
Celebrant Do you believe in God the Father?
People I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
Celebrant Do you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
People I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.....
Celebrant Do you believe in God the Holy Spirit?
People I believe in the Holy Spirit...
Celebrant Will you continue in the apostles' teaching and
fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and
in the prayers...
Etc
29119. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:42:20 AM You probably remember this from the closing scene of the Godfather....Really all that is the Catholic Faith is found in the liturgical rites of its Churches....rites/sacraments established by Jesus for his Church
Question Do you renounce Satan and all the spiritual forces of
wickedness that rebel against God?
Answer I renounce them. 29120. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 2:35:32 AM Some Protestant denominations believe in infant baptism, but most do not. We believe baptism should be reserved for those who are old enough to have a biblical understanding of salvation, a conscious commitment to Christ and a knowledge of the significance of baptism. And while there is no biblical prohibition against infant baptism, there is no scriptural evidence promoting it!
29121. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 2:36:20 AM I try not to talk about things I know little or nothing about
Jexster, sometimes your jokes are not funny. 29122. jexster - 9/22/2008 2:59:14 AM I think this summary from Wikipedia is accurate on the subject of infant baptism:
Most Christian churches practice infant baptism.[1] Among them are the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, the Anglican Communion, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, the Assyrian Church of the East, the Church of the Nazarene,[2] the Reformed Church in America,[3] the United Church of Christ (UCC) and the Continental Reformed.
Groups within the Protestant tradition that reject infant baptism include Baptists, most Pentecostals, Mennonites, Amish, Community of Christ, Plymouth Brethren, Seventh-day Adventists, most non-denominational churches and other Arminian denominations. Infant baptism is also excluded by Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians and Latter-day Saints. 29123. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:20:21 AM Jenerator's fate and it isn't pretty....Outside the Holy Catholic Church Wabbit there is no salvation
Jesus said so.....Can't say that she didn't hear the Word on the Last Day.
Not good
29124. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:21:56 AM Matthew 16
He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’ 16Simon Peter answered, ‘You are the Messiah,* the Son of the living God.’ 17And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are Peter,* and on this rock* I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’
John 15
Jesus the True Vine
15‘I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine-grower. 2He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes* to make it bear more fruit. 3You have already been cleansed* by the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
John 6
I am the Bread of Life
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