Religion and Philosophy

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Just so no one is misled other than Jenerator

29117. wabbit - 9/22/2008 1:23:56 AM

Jexster, I think I understand that Baptism is the individual's acceptance of the primacy of the word of God (either Catholic or Protestant). What is Christening about? Is that meant to salvage those who have not yet reached a point of being able to make a choice? Or does one have to make a conscious choice to accept God, hence leaving the young out of any chance of salvation?

Jen, now we're getting to the nitty-gritty of my interest (well, ok, my specific interest for the moment). The Catholic church relies on the Vatican's authority, hence the Pope's interpretation of the Bible. The various Protestant churches rely on the individual's interpretation of the Bible, trusting in whatever teaching may have been received in Sunday School or at home. Is that close?

I need to ice my hands, but will carry on tomorrow. Sorry for needing the remedial tutoring, but I'm very much enjoying this conversation with you both, it is very interesting and informative for me. Thank you again.

29118. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:36:04 AM

"Christening" is a synonym for infant baptism. Godparents and parents christen the child..the baptism is effective and its covenants affirmed as a rite of passage in the sacrament of confirmation where the confirmand accepts the promises made on her behalf at baptism


ie The Baptismal Covenant aka the Apostles Creed

The Baptismal Covenant

Celebrant Do you believe in God the Father?
People I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

Celebrant Do you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
People I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.....
Celebrant Do you believe in God the Holy Spirit?
People I believe in the Holy Spirit...


Celebrant Will you continue in the apostles' teaching and
fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and
in the prayers...

Etc

29119. jexster - 9/22/2008 1:42:20 AM

You probably remember this from the closing scene of the Godfather....Really all that is the Catholic Faith is found in the liturgical rites of its Churches....rites/sacraments established by Jesus for his Church

Question Do you renounce Satan and all the spiritual forces of
wickedness that rebel against God?
Answer I renounce them.

29120. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 2:35:32 AM

Some Protestant denominations believe in infant baptism, but most do not. We believe baptism should be reserved for those who are old enough to have a biblical understanding of salvation, a conscious commitment to Christ and a knowledge of the significance of baptism. And while there is no biblical prohibition against infant baptism, there is no scriptural evidence promoting it!

29121. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 2:36:20 AM

I try not to talk about things I know little or nothing about

Jexster, sometimes your jokes are not funny.

29122. jexster - 9/22/2008 2:59:14 AM

I think this summary from Wikipedia is accurate on the subject of infant baptism:

Most Christian churches practice infant baptism.[1] Among them are the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, the Anglican Communion, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, the Assyrian Church of the East, the Church of the Nazarene,[2] the Reformed Church in America,[3] the United Church of Christ (UCC) and the Continental Reformed.

Groups within the Protestant tradition that reject infant baptism include Baptists, most Pentecostals, Mennonites, Amish, Community of Christ, Plymouth Brethren, Seventh-day Adventists, most non-denominational churches and other Arminian denominations. Infant baptism is also excluded by Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians and Latter-day Saints.

29123. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:20:21 AM

Jenerator's fate and it isn't pretty....Outside the Holy Catholic Church Wabbit there is no salvation

Jesus said so.....Can't say that she didn't hear the Word on the Last Day.

Not good

29124. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:21:56 AM

Matthew 16

He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’ 16Simon Peter answered, ‘You are the Messiah,* the Son of the living God.’ 17And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are Peter,* and on this rock* I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’

Jesus the True Vine

15‘I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine-grower. 2He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes* to make it bear more fruit. 3You have already been cleansed* by the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ 53So Jesus said to them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day; 55for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them. 57Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever eats me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like that which your ancestors ate, and they died. But the one who eats this bread will live for ever.’ 59He said these things while he was teaching in the synagogue at Capernaum.


Blessed be God!

29125. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:23:37 AM

29126. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:27:46 AM

I Am the Bread of Life (Samoan Choir) Cardinal Pio's Funeral

29127. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:32:06 AM

Jexster,

I am a Christian, so why do you think I am going to hell?

29128. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:32:46 AM

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

Outside the Church there is no salvation.


Poor Jenerator...She's put herself outside Holy Mother Church

You're in much better shape Wabbit
If I get the chance next sat, I shall ask Cardinal Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

But I am pretty sure

29129. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:34:13 AM

I cannot say that you are going to Hell Jen..that would be a blashephemy..a grave sin

The Holy Mother Church canonizes, it does not condemn.

I am teasing you..I think

29130. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:36:54 AM

Well, you and I both will have to stand before Christ and account for our actions and words. Neither of us deserve mercy.

29131. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:38:02 AM

You have however mocked the True Cross; Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, and the Great Mother of God, Mary Most Holy..

Not good

29132. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:39:54 AM

Jexster,

I would like the scriptural evidence for the Immaculate Conception. Can you please show it to me.

29133. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:40:50 AM

You have however mocked the True Cross;
Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, and the Great Mother of God, Mary Most Holy..

Unless YOU are claiming to be those things, you do not know what you're talking about.

29134. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:41:30 AM

Going back to Mary, I would really appreciate it if you would show me the scriptural evidence for the Immaculate Conception.

29135. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:41:56 AM

We all receive mercy...children by adoption and grace..by His merits not our own

That's what it is all about

Religion and Philosophy