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29128. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:32:46 AM Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus
Outside the Church there is no salvation.
Poor Jenerator...She's put herself outside Holy Mother Church
You're in much better shape Wabbit
If I get the chance next sat, I shall ask Cardinal Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
But I am pretty sure 29129. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:34:13 AM I cannot say that you are going to Hell Jen..that would be a blashephemy..a grave sin
The Holy Mother Church canonizes, it does not condemn.
I am teasing you..I think 29130. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:36:54 AM Well, you and I both will have to stand before Christ and account for our actions and words. Neither of us deserve mercy. 29131. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:38:02 AM You have however mocked the True Cross; Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, and the Great Mother of God, Mary Most Holy..
Not good 29132. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:39:54 AM Jexster,
I would like the scriptural evidence for the Immaculate Conception. Can you please show it to me. 29133. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:40:50 AM You have however mocked the True Cross;
Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, and the Great Mother of God, Mary Most Holy..
Unless YOU are claiming to be those things, you do not know what you're talking about.
29134. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:41:30 AM Going back to Mary, I would really appreciate it if you would show me the scriptural evidence for the Immaculate Conception. 29135. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:41:56 AM We all receive mercy...children by adoption and grace..by His merits not our own
That's what it is all about
29136. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:44:14 AM Luke 1:28 29137. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:46:26 AM Luke 1:28 - And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Okay, so where does that claim she was without sin?
29138. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:47:17 AM
Is 6:3
Gen 3:15
Judges 13:3-4
Judges 13:7
Judges 13:13-14
Lk 1:28
"
Eph 1:4-6 29139. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:50:06 AM Being the highest of the Redeemed, the Mother of Christ was freed from the bond of Original Sin
She is the second Eve, Jesus the New Adam
It is a doctrine about Jesus and us 29140. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:50:09 AM Isaiah 6:3
And they were calling to one another:
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory."
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush [b] your head,
and you will strike his heel."
Not seeing where this has anything to do with Mary being sinless... 29141. jexster - 9/22/2008 3:50:27 AM
The Immaculate Conception
490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace".133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God's grace.
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135
492 The "splendor of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son".136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love".137
493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God "the All-Holy" (Panagia), and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature".138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
"Let it be done to me according to your word. . ."
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."139 Thus, giving her consent to God's word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God's grace:140
As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race."141 Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert. . .: "The knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."142 Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."143 29142. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:51:56 AM Being the highest of the Redeemed, the Mother of Christ was freed from the bond of Original Sin
Then what does she need to be redeemed from? Also, I am still waiting for you to show me scriptural evidence for this. So far, you have shown me nothing that supports this stance.
29143. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:52:46 AM That's Pope Pius, Jexster, that's not the New Testament. Show me scriptual evidence that proves Mary was without sin. 29144. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:54:27 AM PROVE this!
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135 29145. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:55:53 AM Show me where in the scriptures it claims that Mary was without sin. Just show me. Pope Pius is not part of the scriptures. St. Iraneus is an early church father, not the author of the New Testament.
Show me the scriptures, Jex. Look through the birth narratives, find the evidence that states that Mary was born without sin. 29146. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:56:37 AM Meanwhile, I am going to have some (late) dinner. I will await the scriptural evidence! 29147. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:05:58 AM
The belief of the Immaculate Conception of Mary says nothing about Mary and personal sin (Rom 3:23).
There's the evidence
Make of it what you will...
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