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29144. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:54:27 AM PROVE this!
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135 29145. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:55:53 AM Show me where in the scriptures it claims that Mary was without sin. Just show me. Pope Pius is not part of the scriptures. St. Iraneus is an early church father, not the author of the New Testament.
Show me the scriptures, Jex. Look through the birth narratives, find the evidence that states that Mary was born without sin. 29146. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 3:56:37 AM Meanwhile, I am going to have some (late) dinner. I will await the scriptural evidence! 29147. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:05:58 AM
The belief of the Immaculate Conception of Mary says nothing about Mary and personal sin (Rom 3:23).
There's the evidence
Make of it what you will... 29148. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:06:20 AM
Then what does she need to be redeemed from?
UH..SIN 29149. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:06:47 AM Original sin..it is a doctrinal statement about Jesus Christ 29150. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:08:41 AM PROVE this!
Oh you mean like PROVE Jesus rose from the dead ..that he is True God and True Man?
Because if he is, the Immaculate Conception flows from that if not, not
Can't prove a faith statement... 29151. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:10:21 AM You mean like a tape recording of the Angel Gabriel???
Something like the Quran is to Muslims? Or the Book of Mormon to Moronis
Sorry the Christian Scriptures aren't that 29152. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:12:16 AM If she is without sin, why would she need to be redeemed from sin, Jexster? That's nonsensical. 29153. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:12:34 AM That's like saying that Christ needs to be redeemed. 29154. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:13:26 AM But if you believe in the Word, and the Word became flesh of the Virgin Mary, the Immaculate Conception is hardly difficult to understand
And has been so understood from the Church's very beginning.
29155. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:15:18 AM Like I said, the Doctrine isn't about Mary, it is about her Son..he freed her from Original Sin of Eve (mankind) from Before Time because the Word pre-existed creation....
29156. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:15:45 AM Otherwise she could never have said YES to Gabriel
That's all it says... 29157. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:16:14 AM Sorry the Christian Scriptures aren't that
There is no scriptural evidence to support Pius' declaration that Mary was without sin. None. Instead of simply honoring her, you all have catapulted her to the level of Christ.
Why isn't Joseph held in the same regard? He was Christ's earthly father. Was he without sin, too? What about Christ's earthly brothers? Uncles? Aunts? Cousins?
29158. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:18:02 AM It is NOT like saying the Redeemer needed to be Redeemed
That makes no sense
It is saying something about the Redemption itself and because that is a Mystery no human words can capture, all attempts to understand are the very stuff of a life of faith
The Doctrine of the Immaculate conception is about Jesus not about Mary 29159. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:18:10 AM Your're jumping to faulty conclusions based on emotion. There is absolutely, positively NO scriptural evidence to suggest that Mary was sinless. None.
29160. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:19:22 AM The Doctrine of the Immaculate conception is about Jesus not about Mary
Baloney! It's about Pius declaring Mary has sinless. and a Virgin till death.
29161. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:19:29 AM That's what we believe...
You asked
I told you ..I think fairly accurately
Gnite
I must rest for the Great Depression of George Herbert Hoover Bush consumeth me 29162. Jenerator - 9/22/2008 4:20:30 AM Wabbit,
This is the kind of scenario Protestants and Catholics have been having for centuries.
I just want Jexster to support the Church's stance with scripture - the primary source of the faith itself, and he cannot. 29163. jexster - 9/22/2008 4:20:52 AM Baloney???
It is what I said it is...that's not "baloney" ...that is a fact.
You may think the belief itself is "baloney" without warrant in Scripture, the Church believes otherwise
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