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29378. anomie - 10/25/2008 12:51:04 AM That's pretty well said. Although I like Jen,(I like you Jen), prideful and stubborn as she is, she can be exasperating as hell in a discussion, especially a discussion she doesn't want to have. 29379. Jenerator - 10/25/2008 3:49:42 PM Anomie,
I am not sure what it is you're trying to get me to say or admit, but if you would, just be upfront and tell me what it is? Are you suggesting that if I do not believe that God has sanctioned an official church body I.e. Methodists, there is no one who can claim authoritatively what is right/wrong, Christian/unChristian?
I am not really sure what you're getting at.
29380. Jenerator - 10/25/2008 4:09:19 PM My problem with Jen's pronouncements of faith are that they usually boil down to God's will, which to my mind (and Saint Augustine's), no one can ever know.
This is too simplistic. Even Augustine knew that the scriptures gave us a deep insight to God; and through the study of them, we're able to learn God's will to the best of our finite abilities.
So when I offered up some empirical examples of atrocious, non-Christian behaviors--like the many videos above--in the hopes of getting her to, at least, acknowledge the blatant hypocrisy of so many self-proclaimed Christians, she always ignored the salient issues in the very same annoyingly evasive ways that anomie is complaining about.
What you find atrocious and what others find atrocious can be different. Would you be offended if I showed smug and smarmy atheists and agnostics ridiculing McCain? In the grand scheme of things, a few people with different opinions morally outrage you? It's as though you're always tring to concoct scenarios of which is worse.
I suspect that she is just prideful, stubborn and clings to her faith out of fear and habit of mind.
Then you suspect wrong. My faith is not fear based and it's not a habit.
Otherwise, she would be able to articulate her doubts and conflicted assumptions--like any other honest seeker of divine love.
Of course I have doubts and conflicted assumptions. Why would I throw them into the lion's den here, though? One time I mentioned some doubts I was having and Sakonige came in like a starving vulture, and the rest followed.
29381. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/25/2008 4:57:44 PM Jen, your post just confirmed every one of my contentions about your argumentation. Moreover, you still seem totally unaware of your own basic and, I would contend, unconscious assumptions.
I am not attacking you, I'm criticizing your words and your methods, which are, frankly, often devious and evasive. You never question or admit to your bias or your doubts; your pronouncements can be shockingly outrageous and you seem incognizant of their effect.
I'm sure you've been attacked often and that your feelings have been bruised--but you don't seem to understand that the rationale behind your faith and your beliefs is often regurgitated evangelical boilerplate. You reveal more of your true self with comments like the Sakonige one above.
You exhibit no humility. Everything is a battle of good and evil and you stubbornly defend untenable behaviors in the name of Christ. You're missing the point about Christ. He was about love, not law--compassion, not intolerance. When are you going to get it? 29382. anomie - 10/25/2008 6:12:53 PM Jen, forget it. I can't believe you just asked me to be "up front" with you. But anyway, I've lost interest and should we continue I think you'd just keep trying to trap me in the labyrinth of your mind, and I just don't have the energy for it. 29383. anomie - 10/25/2008 6:18:49 PM evangelical boilerplate = Protestant orthodoxy = Jen's earthly church authory = extrabiblical = church custom overiding a personal relationship with God = just like Catholics. 29384. jexster - 10/26/2008 6:49:59 PM Election Novena Day 1
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
29385. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 10/26/2008 7:30:58 PM 
29386. jexster - 10/27/2008 12:21:59 AM This should sound familiar..
From Landover Babdiss
WASILLA, ALASKA HAS MORE PEOPLE THAN HEAVEN WILL
Posted by tiffanywellsley on October 5, 2008
The charming moderator of this board has invited me to give my thoughts on heaven. Let’s skip the rhetoric. First, no one is there yet. I am sick and tired of hearing people say their deceased mother or grandmother or uncle or friend or child is in heaven with God. No one is in heaven but God, you moron. The Bible clearly says that no one will ascend to heaven until Jesus returns to the Earth and smashes it to bits, and Judgment Day occurs. So, your deceased relatives and friends are rotting in bug-infested boxes. Accept it!
Frankly, if I were running the show, the stupidity of people who believe their dead loved ones are communing with God now would be enough to disqualify them from eternal bliss. But God isn’t as strict as I am. He has said, through the apostles, that anyone who asks Jesus to enter his life as his personal Lord and Savior will enter heaven. This means that people must be born again. Since some of the most despicable people imaginable may very well have turned their lives over to the Lord on their deathbeds (e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, JFK, MLK), this provision can be disconcerting.
But consider the fact that it means heaven won’t be all that crowded. Most people never accept Jesus as their Savior and therefore won’t enter heaven. First, all non-Christians (meaning the vast majority of the planet) will perish in hell. Thank goodness, because that curry smell really bothers me.
It matters not whether the individual is young or old, white or black, straight or perverted – if he didn’t ask Jesus to enter his heart and take over his life at some time, he goes to hell. This, of course, includes all aborted fetuses, SIDS babies, children who died at a very young age and the mentally retarded. None were ever capable of accepting the Christ, hence none can enter the kingdom of heaven.
29387. jexster - 10/27/2008 12:22:26 AM But it means a lot more than this. Numerous Christian denominations don’t accept the born again view. The idol-worshipping Catholics and their relatives, the Episcopalians (Catholic-lights), are among them. So, we won’t have to experience that Tijuana smell and annoying apparition-spotting in the hereafter. And don’t forget all the people who had the misfortune of passing away before Jesus was born, like Adam and
Abraham. They could never accept Jesus (since they didn’t even know who He was), hence they must fry.
What will happen to the vast majority of people who wind up in hell? They will experience the worst pain, agony and stench imaginable, for eternity. Remember how it feels to have a match or small flame held under your fingertip or other part of your skin for a few seconds? Now, imagine that such pain exists all over your body and never goes away – that excruciating agony lasts for millions of years, never abating. That’s what you morons who refuse to accept the Lord face. True Christians will watch you suffer from our skyboxes in heaven. And we won’t feel badly for you, because we know you had the same chance we had for salvation. I hope living it up now was worth it. You deserve what you get, you disgusting heathens.
Toodles!
Tiffany(!!!!)
29388. jexster - 10/27/2008 1:05:05 AM Father Geoffrey Farrow is a gay priest who publicly opposed Proposition 8 in California. He is a serious man who wrestled with faith and unfaith over the years and came back to the church, to serve it, as a pastor. This kind of man is essential for the Church's future. And yet the price of his decision to speak out for the marginalized is that he has been removed from his parish, and his health benefits end after this month. But his story is, to my mind, a sign of what Catholicism is at its best:
Farrow said he still sees the church as home, and believes his new mission is to force this issue whether he's wearing a collar or not. "They said I've caused scandal to the church," he said. "I think the real scandal is the thousands of gay and lesbian children who feel abandoned by the church of their baptism."
Continue reading "The Price Of A Conscience" » Andrew Sullivan
29389. jexster - 10/27/2008 5:21:23 PM Day 2
29390. Jenerator - 10/28/2008 3:36:02 PM This case should be interesting.
Wealthy cleric Pujiono Cahyo Widiyanto marries a 12-year-old girl in his hometown of Semarang, Central Java
The second edict, issued in 2006, bans purely religious marriages, kawin siri, as conducted by the cleric, because of the inherent disadvantages it brings. Such a marriage, however, is allowed under traditional Islamic law. 29391. jexster - 10/28/2008 4:46:59 PM Election Novena Day 3
29392. wonkers2 - 10/29/2008 5:12:17 PM Religion's downside manifested in world's largest democracy. 29393. judithathome - 10/29/2008 5:20:53 PM Well, Jen, luckily Obama is already married to an adult woman. 29394. judithathome - 10/29/2008 5:21:45 PM I had "sarcasm" after that in < > brackets...it didn't show up. Hmmmm.... 29395. jexster - 10/29/2008 6:06:01 PM Election Novena Day 4 29396. jexster - 10/30/2008 9:41:52 PM Election Novena Day 5
1 Corinthians 11
The Institution of the Lord’s Supper
23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, ‘This is my body that is for* you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ 25In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
Partaking of the Supper Unworthily
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord. 28Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For all who eat and drink* without discerning the body,* eat and drink judgement against themselves 29397. Jenerator - 10/31/2008 10:07:01 PM transubstantiation 2 : the miraculous change by which according to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dogma the eucharistic elements at their consecration become the body and blood of Christ while keeping only the appearances of bread and wine
Jexster, are you allowed to drink the wine at the Lord's Supper?
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