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46310. arkymalarky - 3/26/2016 4:53:49 AM I like to think that what we're seeing is painful and unsightly death of the Republican Party. I do not see how they're going to hold together as opposed to dividing into factions a Libertarian, tea party, establishment, fiscal conservatives, etcetera etcetera etcetera 46311. arkymalarky - 3/26/2016 6:46:14 PM I should say the GOP as we have known it on the national level. I don't think they can lead the Tea Party their way any more, and they already lost the loyalty of Libertarians. What will be really interesting over the next election cycle or two is how the states shift. They may keep winning at the state level, which may be fine with them, but if all they can do is block a Democratic president it would seem that people of the state and local level will get tired of not seeing anything accomplished for them. You're already seeing that. 46312. winstonsmith - 3/27/2016 12:56:44 AM I guess I am feeling pretty much like iiibbb. Hard to see an upside or a tolerable, stable end to this. People, especially Republicans, are entrenched in reflexively negative positions that are not based on facts. Too many people believe things passionately that are simply untrue.
Even if Clinton or Sanders wins, there will be no end to the toxic backlash and gridlock. The republican factions, however this shakes out, will likely join together in opposition to the new president.
Obama was as pragmatic a president as we will ever see. He was willing to compromise and solve problems and was met with nothing but calculated obstruction. It was a giant missed opportunity.
46313. arkymalarky - 3/27/2016 1:10:04 AM That kind of game can only be played so long before people get sick of it based on what's happening in their own lives. As a for instance, what we, in the boonies where I live, call a neighbor ran for some local position, got local business incentive money to his business, then ran for reelection, and his opponent, without spending a single dime or putting up any signs or calling any people ran against him. He said people know me and if they like me they'll vote for me if they don't they won't. He won handily. People are starting to feel like they've been tahken advantage of and taken for granted and they don't like it.
The GOP is risking losing the Senate, and a number of them are starting to figure that out. A lot of them are in full-blown panic over the two Frontrunners and they're running for the exits as quickly as they can. I think one possible result of that is that we might actually see some things get done before the elections. They know that if they don't do something and bring home something to show their constituents their asses are likely to be kicked to the curb in November. 46314. arkymalarky - 3/27/2016 1:12:30 AM I don't really care for Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and I don't feel like the Democratic party has done enough to mobilize on the local and state level and take advantage of the presidential election season 46315. winstonsmith - 3/27/2016 1:19:50 AM Arky, I hope you are right. In any case, I think I need to let go to a degree and recognize that I have little control over how this will play out. 46316. arkymalarky - 3/27/2016 1:27:11 AM Yeah, a lot of my friends and family are the same way, and anything can happen in any election. But I go back to 2008 and seeing what was going on and really believing that this country would not elect a black man as president. I really think for people like me who live in red States, and for a number of my friends who live in very white red states, their view of people's opinions can be very depressing. 46317. winstonsmith - 3/27/2016 2:11:00 AM I live in Portland Oregon which is one of the whitest and most liberal places in the US. Bernie was here yesterday and he would have been interesting to see but I would have had to wait in line for hours. He is a rock star in Portland. Most of my friends have negative and unrealistic views of Hillary. They mostly love Obama though. This is truly a little bubble here. 46318. iiibbb - 3/27/2016 2:57:22 AM Obama is the best president of my lifetime.
I really think Hillary made the best use of her time since 2008. I've never liked her much, but there is no denying her qualifications at this point.
Purity kills parties. I'm actually more disgusted by progressive even entertaining 4 years of Trump as "punishment" to the unpure than I am Cruz or Trump because they are simply acting within their nature... It's like being mad at a scorpion... Progressives willing to throw at risk demographics under the bus while claiming Hillary = Trump and not recognizing the long game even when it is pointed out... It's depressing and infuriating. 46319. winstonsmith - 3/27/2016 3:25:45 AM iiibbb, yeah, it reminds me of when my Nader-supporting friends would tell me that there was no difference between Gore and Bush. That election had grave consequences. 46320. iiibbb - 3/27/2016 4:38:50 AM I give Nader voters a bit of a pass. They probably couldn't have predicted how bad Bush would be. I won't give protest votes a pass this time. In many ways progressive causes are more vulnerable than they were 16 years ago. There's much more at stake now. I shudder to think about this Republican party masters of all braches of government. 46321. arkymalarky - 3/27/2016 5:27:22 AM There aren't that many purists in either party. Stan thinks that it may be a real possibility that the GOP will break into two candidates and Hillary will not break 50%, so the House will decide. There are really all kinds of ways people csn scare themselves with this crazy election, but I still think Occam's razor suggests that Hillary Clinton is going to get it. Trump can't even break 50% and is the Republican Party, and Cruz has been doing worse than that.
And I absolutely agree with 3i. In fact I was just thinking that today. Obama is the best president in my lifetime. And I was born in 1959, so I include Kennedy in that. 46322. iiibbb - 3/27/2016 5:28:04 PM One poll sayes 30 of Sanders supporters won't vote Hillary under any circumstances. Shit human beings as bad as any Trump supporter IMHO, and in some ways worse. 46323. arkymalarky - 3/27/2016 5:53:57 PM Bernie Sanders has won a lot of sway at the convention with the platform etcetera etcetera, and when he and Obama get out there it's going to change the whole dynamic. What I really do wonder, is how Trump supporters will vote if he doesn't get the nomination. And more and more people are wondering what's going to happen at the convention, and making gallows jokes about how they feel about their guns and the violence that occurred at Rallies, it could get really ugly. I'm always stressed about elections, but if I were Republican I would be Beyond panic. 46324. winstonsmith - 3/28/2016 4:44:13 AM More and more I think Sanders could be an asset to Clinton's campaign in the general election. He brings a significant amount of enthusiasm and is raising huge amounts of money. I hope she is considering him for VP.
I realize it woul be unorthodox to choose someone on the far left but this is not a normal year. If the GOP nominee is Trump, I think she could get away with it. 46325. winstonsmith - 3/28/2016 4:52:16 AM BTW, I know this is off topic but where is The Mote hosted? It seems to be having trouble. 46326. arkymalarky - 3/28/2016 1:58:03 PM NZ. Alistair is in France, and it seems like a server issue, so.... 46327. judithathome - 3/29/2016 12:44:54 AM Hillary gave a great speech today in Madison, WI...hard to believe someone like Trump/Cruz is getting most of the air time when she can deliver such a great sppech and get one-third the air time those two receive.... 46328. judithathome - 3/29/2016 12:45:28 AM crap...SPEECH. 46329. judithathome - 3/30/2016 11:51:26 PM So, Trump decides women who have abortions need to be "punished"...
Welcome to 1984.
"The tyranny is epitomised by Big Brother, the Party leader who enjoys an intense cult of personality but who may not even exist. The Party "seeks power entirely for its own sake. It is not interested in the good of others; it is interested solely in power."
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