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525. IrvingSnodgrass - 12/4/1999 3:03:04 AM CalGal:
I'd hate to sacrifice performance for this relatively minor issue. But maybe with all the great minds here, we can come up with something.
But don't ask me... I have no idea what's possible and what isn't. 526. IrvingSnodgrass - 12/4/1999 2:47:38 AM My 2¢:
I think that fake posts should be banned, until we can find a way to make them impossible.
Regardless of intent, all fake posts should be deleted. Otherwise we risk opening a huge can of worms.
I know fake posts are usually harmless and can be humorous, but as I mentioned elsewhere, the few can easily ruin it for the many.
Sure, they're usually easy to detect (though there are tricks to make them less detectable), but not everyone is checking every post for time stamps and post numbers.
We should fix the posting software so that the post number appears outside the column (iow, the posts are indented). would this be difficult?
Until then, I saw ban fake posts altogether, or risk continual meltdowns and hassles. 527. CalGal - 12/4/1999 3:11:35 AM I could also use the block tag, I suppose. I tried it and didn't like it. Should have mentioned that. Still, the same issue--it's more formatting, and I jes don't like it.
I need to be clear, though--I'm a purist. I don't know that the performance problem would be that bad, and the hit would be on the client side, not the server (at least, I think that's how HTML works?). But it just seems so....messy.
There are other possible problems: - As it is now, a badly placed table command can screw up a page. This would make the problem worse.
- Someone could, possibly, figure out how to forge a post even with this approach. They would probably screw up any formatting downstream of it, but the post itself would look real.
In general, I would prefer a procedural approach to a sloppy code approach. Best of all is a clean code approach, which I haven't been able to think up yet.528. CalGal - 12/4/1999 3:14:22 AM Oh, I meant to say--I think it is imperative that we start deleting fake posts immediately. I've thought of that before now and forgot to mention it; I'm glad you brought it up.
Someone reading back over old posts could get very confused, otherwise.
Ideally, the fake post and any comments about it should be deleted--once it has been firmly established that the "victim" understands what happened, obviously.
This would be enough of a hassle that wabbit and thread hosts would start to get very cranky about forgeries, since it would cause extra work. 529. PelleNilsson - 12/4/1999 3:34:00 AM We may be building a molehill here. But OK, delete and withdraw HTML privilegies until the offender has apologised in public and promised not to do it again. A bit childish, but then we are a bit childish around here. 530. CalGal - 12/4/1999 4:59:29 AM I don't think it's a huge problem, but I have seen the panic that occurs when someone doesn't know what happened. It isn't fun, even for those few minutes until the explanation comes. But I really would rather not overengineer a solution to what is an infrequent occurrence.
531. AceofSpades - 12/11/1999 5:07:42 AM
Well, how about my new twist:
While we were down I posted "fake posts," but I changed the names. There is no "CelGel" or "IrvingSnootgrin" or "EricCartass" or "VonKredulous" or "pseudointellectus."
Is THAT against the rules, too? 532. CalGal - 12/11/1999 5:19:04 AM I hope not, because they were very funny. 533. CalGal - 12/11/1999 5:32:55 AM But then, you acknowledged that it was your work. As far as I was concerned, it was nothing more than creative writing, with special effects. 534. Candide - 12/11/1999 7:28:22 AM I don't know how one creates a fake post, but I can get myself into enough trouble unaided without the added horror of a very easy parody. 535. Candide - 12/11/1999 7:47:52 AM AceofSpades - 12/11/99 9:07:42 PM
Was that your congress with a reindeer?
Very, very funny. 536. EricCartman - 12/11/1999 10:19:03 AM For newbies, fake posts might be a problem. Most of the rest of us seem to be able to tell 'em pretty quick, especially since the times are nearly impossible to get right. Ace seems to be the one that does the most of it, and he usually makes it pretty clear that they're for comedic purposes. So my 2¢ is that it's basically too infrequent to even be worth getting worked up over. I thought Waffles' posts were so intentionally obvious, I'm almost surprised Stone even bothered to get worked up about it.
Almost.
Tempest in a teapot, anyone?
537. AceofSpades - 12/11/1999 2:30:22 PM
Cartman:
They're only "intentionally obvious" to those who are in on the gag.
Which is the problem.
I'm not really up for a per se ban on the trick. But it is a good idea to, at minimum, NEVER play the trick on someone who isn't in on the joke.
In addition, we should NEVER but nasty words into anyone's mouth. Goofy stuff only.
Finally, the name on the "post" should always be faked. No real monikers; you should always change it.
The latter step would be reassuring to newbies. They can understand that anyone can come in and sign up under a name SIMILAR, but not the same, as someone else's. (Not that that's what we're doing, but that sort of thing can be done in ANY forum.)
By the way:
I pointed this out when the topic first arose all those months ago, but YES, you can play the exact same trick at Salon. I've done it-- I posted a fake post from myself. (I wonder if that's why they banned me...?) 538. EricCartman - 12/11/1999 2:40:56 PM Ace:
That all sounds reasonable enough to me. No one's really done it much in quite a while anyway; it kinda petered out because we wore the novelty out back in the beta stage.
And if Stone had just let Nostradamus' most recent disguised shots at him go, it'd be a moot point by now. I just have the feeling that there's more dirt being kicked up than actual punches being thrown, if you know what I mean.
But yeah, maybe we all oughta just have a gentlemen's agreement to save those sorts of pranks for the Playpen, and not spam the other threads with them.
539. ee - 12/11/1999 3:13:06 PM Let the fake posts go for the time being and see who and how it's abused. It's easy enough to point out fakes.
I hate the added sound waves. 540. wabbit - 12/13/1999 4:42:25 AM Have any of the victims of fake posts checked in? I'd like to hear what they have to say.
541. Adrianne - 12/27/1999 10:58:10 PM Wabbit
Question - Where should (pretty mildly stated) objections to a moderator's behavior be posted? In Arts and Music, I wrote to JJ (the formal style was meant to take some of the sting out - I've done this with him before, and he, me).
1309. Adrianne - 12/28/99 2:34:39 PM
Dear Mr. JJBeiner, Moderator
I was browsing this usually moribund thread, when I came across a
gratuitously nasty comment interjected into a discussion between two
posters who disagreed, but were not flaming or fighting one another.
(JJ TO CORALREEF) "coralreef - Your lack of knowledge about the musical history of the last 50 years is astounding. First of all, Rock & Roll started in the 50's, not the 60's. Second, to discount the Beatles as a marketing gimmick or a rehash of R&B demonstrates a fundamental and overwhelming ignorance of the period and music. I suggest you find a subject you actually know something about."
Surprisingly, or maybe not, it was an interjected by the moderator of
this thread. You might consider whether or not this kind of behavior is likely to attract posters to your thread, and, inevitably, to The Mote.
Sincerely,
Adrianne
I was quickly taken to task by (who else)
1310. CalGal - 12/28/99 2:40:26 PM
"Ad,
I found your smarmy marm lecture far more bothersome than anything
else in this thread in a few days. Take it to the playpen."
While I don't know what "smarmy marm" is (?) I'll take a flyer and guess that it's not complimentary. That's ok, I don't mind that - but I *am* curious about the order to "take it to the playpen."
Surely that wouldn't be the place for my post? Would it? In retrospect, should I have emailed it to JJ?
What say you?
542. CalGal - 12/27/1999 11:21:20 PM Ad,
You are no more compelled to "take it to the playpen" then I am to watch an interesting debate turn into a bitch session about JJ's purported meanness.
I don't think there is a right or wrong method of addressing these things. You do what you think is appropriate. Including, if you wish, ignoring me completely.
I do not speak for wabbit. I merely wish to correct your notion that you were "ordered" to take it to the playpen. Do not confuse a high-handed rhetorical style with an assumption of authority. 543. wabbit - 12/28/1999 1:34:04 AM Ad,
The idea of having threads hosted was that someone who was interested in the topic would keep the thread moving along. This does not preclude the thread host taking a swipe at a participant in the course of a discussion, even if the host was not originally part of the conversation. Thread hosts are still primarily participants in their threads and it is up to them to set the tone for the thread. Each host has to decide for themselves whether or not their particular topic lends itself to biting comments made toward other participants. Some threads, like politics and religion, seem to be tailor-made for such comments, others lean toward more civilized disagreements. Personalities rule each thread, including that of the host.
As far as objections are concerned, I would say this thread is appropriate. Email is an alternative. 544. Adrianne - 12/28/1999 1:40:11 AM
Thanks, wabbit.
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