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7035. thoughtful - 4/23/2007 7:16:25 PM Then again, there are studies like this one: that suggest deteriorating conditions for diabetics who follow a higher carb diet.
RESULTS--The site of study as well as the diet order did not affect the results. Compared with the high-monounsaturated-fat diet, the high-carbohydrate diet increased fasting plasma triglyceride levels and very low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels by 24% (P < .0001) and 23% (P = .0001), respectively, and increased daylong plasma triglyceride, glucose, and insulin values by 10% (P = .03), 12% (P < .0001), and 9% (P = .02), respectively. Plasma total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels remained unchanged. The effects of both diets on plasma glucose, insulin, and triglyceride levels persisted for 14 weeks. CONCLUSIONS--In NIDDM patients, high-carbohydrate diets compared with high-monounsaturated-fat diets caused persistent deterioration of glycemic control and accentuation of hyperinsulinemia, as well as increased plasma triglyceride and very-low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, which may not be desirable.
7036. clydefo - 4/23/2007 10:04:19 PM I certainly agree that results claimed by the Pritikin Center can't be compared to a controlled study. Probably though, their accumulated data over the years has been used for such.
I expect they would agree that there are other ways to treat diabetes, including other exercise/diet regimens. Although the nutrition debate rages, I don't think the integrity of the Center's numbers has ever been impugned. I really don't know much about the diabetes side of it. I can only vouch for the other benefits of their exercise and eating strategy.
The JAMA study cited in 7035 was studying ...a high-carbohydrate diet containing 55% of the total energy as carbohydrates and 30% as fats was compared with a high-monounsaturated-fat diet containing 40% carbohydrates and 45% fats. The amounts of saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats, cholesterol, sucrose, and protein were similar...
Pritikin would not call 55/30/15 a high carb diet. He might call it a "doomsday" diet. His is 80/10/10. Is the 40/45/15 control diet some special diet normally used for diabetics? The subjects were taking glipizide. The study may be entirely valid, but I'd like to know who funded it.
Pritikin's case for eating only enough protein and fat to meet the body's repair and mainenance needs and to provide for needed body chemistry makes sense to me. More than that is excess and must be treated as such. Cleaner, more efficient blood with less platelet clumping and metabolic "ash" to eliminate. He differs from strictly Vegan diets in that limited lean meat is o.k. Whether a plant or animal source, pay attention to the protein and fat content. He limits beans, non-fat dairy and soy because of high protein. Nuts are concentrated fat calories to be avoided.
A very basic and low-prep version of the regimen is easy and convenient for me to stick to. With herbs, spices and fancy recipes, it can be made to satisfy the epicure. 7037. arkymalarky - 4/24/2007 2:49:57 AM Well, the weight seems to be dropping fairly fast with this thyroid medicine. I know that will plane off and I'm fine with that. I just feel like when my thyroid reading is "normal" I will have a good idea of where I really am wrt weight for my long-term goals.
I had class tonight and ate out, as usual, but got full on half what I'd been eating. I gave Mose the rest rather than taking it home. 7038. thoughtful - 4/24/2007 2:26:06 PM Arky, what is the doc having you do for follow up now that you are on the meds...are you monitoring your pulse, blood pressure? Did you get copies of your blood test results that said you needed supplementation? When are you to go back for your next visit.
Also, are you increasing the amount of iodine in your diet? (Seafood, iodized salt, vitamins with iodine are key sources as is milk.) 7039. thoughtful - 4/24/2007 2:43:14 PM Clydefo, yes, that's the issue...what and how is it determined is an adequate level of protein.
And of course, I'm sure there is individual variation be it from evolutionary background or genetic makeup. By that I mean, if you were innuit, chances are the ones who survived over the millennia were the ones who fared best on a high protein and fat diet (fish, whale, seal, walrus) vs. say someone of mediterranean descent whose evolutionary history allowed survival of those who fared best on a lower protein higher plant based diet. 7040. clydefo - 4/24/2007 6:10:59 PM Meat Protein Food For Thought.
On Cancer and a Vegetarian Diet - Kathy Freston
Once you start paying attention, you just can't avoid the bad news about meat consumption. From Reuters comes the news that "Women who received the most calories from animal protein had twice the risk of [endometrial cancer] compared to those who took in the fewest calories from animal sources." ...
Arsenic In Chicken Production
FOR ENVIRONMENTALISTS and some public health experts, one of the most puzzling practices of modern agriculture is the addition of arsenic-based compounds to most chicken feed. The point of the practice is to promote growth, kill parasites that cause diarrhea, and improve pigmentation of chicken meat. But Tyson Foods, the U.S.'s largest poultry producer, stopped using arsenic compounds in 2004, and many high-end and organic growers raise chickens quite successfully without them. What's more, McDonald's has asked its suppliers not to use arsenic additives, and the European Union banned them in 1999... 7041. arkymalarky - 4/25/2007 12:46:10 AM Thoughtful,
I will have my blood tested once a month until it is at "normal" and go from there. All my other readings were good. 7042. arkymalarky - 4/25/2007 12:47:57 AM And she started me on a very low dose of hormone, so I haven't had any changes in pulse or bp. It's been a week today, so all that will be revisited when I go in in three weeks, unless I have a problem before then. 7043. arkymalarky - 4/25/2007 12:56:43 AM Oh, except my cholesterol was a little high and she wants to give me a stress test and look at all that again after I've gotten the thyroid issue under control. I was having chest pains, but since that's a symptom of hypothyroidism (and I haven't had them in a few days) she wants to make sure my thyroid doesn't affect any test results.
Right now I'm trying desperately to finish my coursework for my May graduation and get my own work done and grades finished for my kids. By the time I go back in to the doctor, all that will be behind me except reviewing and giving my classes their finals, getting a mammogram, and taking a June class to finish up my MSE. I don't really expect the May test to show "normal," but I hope the June one does. That's just a blind guess, though. 7044. thoughtful - 4/25/2007 3:25:14 PM I want to strongly encourage you, arky, to get a hold of the copies of your blood work. It's really best to get familiar with where your readings are as well as what the reference or normal range is. Many people find they do well only within a much narrower range than what the blood testing labs consider to be 'normal' for average people.
It is also very important to make sure the right tests are being run....the TSH, the Free T3 and the Free T4. Many doctors will incorrectly dose patients based on the TSH, but the TSH can lag the readings in the other 2 tests leading to over or under treatment. It's really important to dose based on the free t3 and free t4 as well as by how you feel.
I only emphasize this as, through the mediboard, I've heard so many horror stories from patients who are being mistreated and are miserable as a result, when it's not necessary.
So many endos today make their money off of diabetes that they know little about managing thyroid disease. I've seen many of our participants go through 3 or 4 endos before they find one who will treat the patient and not the thyroid. 7045. thoughtful - 4/25/2007 3:26:02 PM BTW, the cholesterol will be higher if you are hypo. Fixing the thyroid will improve your cholesterol readings.
I remember when I had the kidney disease, my cholesterol hit 499!
7046. arkymalarky - 4/26/2007 1:05:43 AM Yeow!
BTW, the cholesterol will be higher if you are hypo. Fixing the thyroid will improve your cholesterol readings
She told me that. I have ready access to all my bloodwork and have the numbers (though I didn't remember them or copy them the first visit), she's taking them again after I hit "normal" and at that point I hope to see the cholesterol down. I've got an appointment May 15 and I'll get a copy then.
It is also very important to make sure the right tests are being run....the TSH, the Free T3 and the Free T4. Many doctors will incorrectly dose patients based on the TSH, but the TSH can lag the readings in the other 2 tests leading to over or under treatment. It's really important to dose based on the free t3 and free t4 as well as by how you feel.
That's what she did, which is why she did the second test before prescribing anything. I remembered they were "t's" and numbers, but didn't remember which ones, but those are the ones. She's very good to explain what's what, and I'll get her to go back through that again with me when I go back. I also emphasized with her all the personal/work stuff I have to go through in the next two to three weeks and how important it is that I not get jerked around, feelings-wise, on this medicine. 7047. wonkers2 - 4/26/2007 1:39:26 PM U.S. doctors are wined and dined by drug sales repsBig Pharma Bribes our Doctors and our Legislators 7048. wonkers2 - 4/26/2007 3:45:24 PM Anybody know anything aboutEDTA? Sounds too good to be true. 7049. thoughtful - 4/26/2007 6:07:26 PM Never heard of it, but just by the way the page is printed up it would seem to be more hype than anything else, at best. At worst, it could be harmful. If I were you, I'd do an internet search to see if any reliable medical journals mention the stuff and judge accordingly. 7050. thoughtful - 4/27/2007 2:24:50 PM This is just getting downright unfair. Why is it all the things that taste so good are so bad for us???
New processing toxins linked with aging diseases
Scientific studies have linked the toxins, called advanced glycation end products (AGEs), with inflammation, insulin resistance, diabetes, vascular and kidney disease, and Alzheimer's....
"AGEs are quite deceptive, since they also give our food desirable tastes and smells," he said. "So, consuming high amounts of grilled, broiled, or fried food means consuming significant amounts of AGEs, and AGEs in excess are toxic."
New methods of cooking to reduce AGE intake, particularly steaming, boiling or making stews, can make a difference, he said. Keeping the heat down and maintaining the water content in food reduces AGE levels.
Can I spend the rest of my days living on soup??? 7051. wonkers2 - 4/29/2007 10:48:10 PM The April 30 New Yorker has a quite good, long article by Atul Gawande entitled "The Way We Age Now." One of his observations is that despite it's usefulness and despite the growing number of old people in this country, the number of geriatric physicians is declining. This is happening apparently because they don't produce as much revenue as do cardiologists, et al. For anybody looking forward to old age the article is well worth reading. I'll try to link it although it would be pretty long to read on line. 7052. wonkers2 - 4/29/2007 10:49:58 PM The Way We Age Now 7053. robertjayb - 5/4/2007 8:54:39 AM Treating the dead... A startling article in Newsweek.
The new science of resuscitation is changing the way doctors think about heart attacks—and death itself.
7054. alistairconnor - 5/4/2007 9:32:37 AM This AGE stuff... it doesn't worry me with respect to processed foods since I eat very little, but fried and barbecued meats, grilled cheese, these are things I eat a fair amount of. Especially living alone, the frying pan is my best friend.
I may have to rethink diet a bit. I was reading an article the other day about Paul McCartney in which his vegetarianism is a big theme, and the journalist notes that he looks at least 10 years younger than his age (65), and that this is true of most of the vegetarians he knows.
It's also true of me (in all modesty). I have been a non-practising (lapsed?) vegetarian these last couple of years. I'm coming round to reconsidering this on health grounds, I'll have to do a bit more reading.
I wonder if having a diet rich in antioxidants counteracts the AGE stuff.
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