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7681. Magoseph - 11/24/2004 11:49:07 PM Yes, It's called Movies & TV, Max. 7682. alistairconnor - 11/26/2004 1:03:45 PM Glory!
Shane McGowan (the drinking man's drinking man), inexplicably, is not yet dead. And the original Pogues are back together -- including bassist Cait O'Riordan, who left him for Elvis Costello in 1985...
The difference between them and bands like the Dubliners was, as MacGowan observes, "We played faster and took more speed."
I hope the magnificent wastrel has got some creative juice left. In the meantime, this article reminds me why I loved them so...
I suppose I could buy the remastered CDs, I would listen to them more often than those awkward vinyl things. 7683. Macnas - 11/29/2004 10:27:07 AM Did you know alistair, that I've met McGowan? Roaring drunk with a woman on either arm, in the Flowing Tide in Abbey street, across from the theatre.
Anyhoo, I was up last night watching telly, with a tin of larger and a packet of tayto's, watching a program that Peel did back in 2000 about the Undertones.
Magic. 7684. Magoseph - 11/29/2004 10:36:10 AM Wiz, what do you think of Marla's work Olmstead?
Gallery
From The Guardian:
A four-year-old girl's abstract paintings are changing hands for thousands of dollars in New York and drawing praise from the art world. But can work by such a young child be judged seriously or is the real genius in the marketing?
The latest phenomenon to hit the New York art scene is a painter whose large-scale abstract works have already been compared to those of Pollock, Miró, Klee and Kandinsky. When she had her first show in August, the canvases were selling for $1,500. When I originally arranged to meet her three weeks ago they had gone up to $6,000, and on my arrival at the gallery the one piece remaining had been priced at $15,000. What they'll be worth by the time you read this is anyone's guess.
Within a week of her most recent exhibition, she had been filmed by more than 10 TV crews, received calls from David Letterman, Ellen DeGeneres and Oprah, and been labelled a 'world-famous Abstract Expressionist'. But the artist herself is said to be oblivious to it all. She is, according to those closest to her, 'kind of reclusive', 'very sensitive', 'temperamental' at times, and extremely loath to talk about her work. Nevertheless, I am advised to come and interview her early - not just because her fame is spreading fast, bt because she has to go to pre-school at 12 o'clock.
http://www.marlaolmstead.com/images/triptonic60x60.jpg
7685. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 12/1/2004 4:18:10 PM Well maggs, to be honest, not much. For an artist to have genuine vision, he or she has to create a unique order in their work. That's not happening here.
The marks are full of life and vitality and the colors are vivid, but all of the artists mentioned, go way beyond this kid.
I suspect the media is looking to exploit her precociousness with a brush.
I'd be curious to hear wabbit's take. 7686. wabbit - 12/2/2004 8:19:27 PM 12/01/04 LONDON (AP) - A porcelain urinal is the most influential work of modern art, according to a survey released Wednesday.
The poll of 500 arts figures ranked French surrealist Marcel Duchamp's 1917 piece 'Fountain' - an ordinary white, porcelain urinal - more influential than Pablo Picasso's 'Les Demoiselles d'Avignon,' Andy Warhol's screen prints of Marilyn Monroe and 'Guernica,' Picasso's searing depiction of the devastation of war.
Duchamp pioneered the use of everyday objects as art, an aesthetic that questioned the nature of art itself.
Art expert Simon Wilson said the choice of Duchamp's urinal "comes as a bit of a shock. But it reflects the dynamic nature of art today and the idea that the creative process that goes into a work of art is the most important thing - the work itself can be made of anything and can take any form," he said.
The survey was conducted by Gordon's Gin, which sponsor's Britain's leading art prize, the Turner Prize. The winner of this year's Turner Prize is due to be announced next Tuesday. 7687. wabbit - 12/2/2004 8:24:50 PM I wanted to post that as a prelude of sorts to my comments about Marla. The age-old argument is, what is art, what is good art, and what good is art. I'm with WoW in thinking that good art is more than slapping colors on a canvas and not coming up with mud, which seems to be Marla's great talent. When WoW talks about the accident, he doesn't mean what happens with Marla - stumbling on a good composition or combination of colors. Those are tools he already has, and maybe she'll develop them, who knows, but for now her paintings are luck.
I accept that most people don't think that Duchamp's urinal is art. They want something pretty to look at, or perhaps something decorative, but not necessarily something they have to think about. This isn't to say that intent alone is enough for me, but intent counts for something. Several years ago I was standing in a gallery with a group of students looking at some large paintings by Sean Scully. Irving Sandler asked me what I thought of them and I said they looked like something that I would use as bedsheets. That doesn't mean the paintings weren't art, but imo they were decorative and that was all. And that's ok, many people liked them and defended Scully to me, but it sounded so much like people tasting an expensive bottle of wine and declaring it wonderful without realizing the influence of the label. The media has created a sort of anti-art market for Marla and it isn't pc to say that perhaps her paintings aren't great art. It's like poking the art world in the eye and saying, see you snobs, we've been saying for years that a child could do this, and here's proof. But it's still the label as much as the paint that creates Marla's market. 7688. wabbit - 12/2/2004 8:25:06 PM I've been hashing this argument out with people for years and sway left and right depending on my mood. A couple former professors tried talking me into writing a book, but it's the kind of thing that would sell 25 copies and disappear. Someone more capable than I will articulate my thoughts someday. I wish more people would go to museums, or read, or just develop an interest in art forms that they are unfamiliar with, instead of being intimidated and condemning the lot. Meanwhile, I won't object if some people want Elvis on black velvet. Chacun a son gout. 7689. Ms. No - 12/2/2004 8:50:04 PM I know practically nothing about art. I like what I like and that makes me something of a junk-food junkie I suppose. I can't think of anything specific off the top of my head but I've been persuaded to an enjoyment of some things after they were explained to me and other things no amount of hype or explanation or back-story will persuade me to enjoy even if I can acknowledge some particular skill or significance about a piece -- the Mona Lisa, for instance and most of Jackson Pollock's work and don't even get me started on Rothko. bleh.
I kind of like Marla's stuff but I would agree that it isn't "great" art. "Great" implies to me a certain amount of intent and self-knowledge which a 4yo simply can't posesses.
As I mentioned, though, "great" isn't a prerequisite for me liking something. There's plenty of significant art that gives me the big yawn. My personal tastes are fairly plebeian. I love Van Gogh, but I recognize that much of what appeals to me in his work is the strong lines and vivid colors....which are shared by cartoons and poster art like my beloved pin-up girls.
7690. Ms. No - 12/2/2004 9:14:37 PM A couple of weeks ago a friend visited me from out of town and it happened to coincide with a tour the Phillips Collection is making to LA right now. I'm sure I've waxed tediously rhapsodic over this collection here before. Quite simply it is my favorite collection of any I've ever seen.
Anyway, I was so excited and got my friend hyped up to see it as well so we paid our money and we walked on in and I was having serious anxiety over whether she would consider the show worth the price of admission. It was only a small part of the Phillips Collection with Renoir's The Boating Party as the star attraction. I was so worried that she'd feel she'd misspent her $17.
I was ecstatic to see the collection again. There were certainly some paintings that didn't I didn't care for and I was sad to see that the African American painters hadn't been brought along, but there were 2 Van Gogh's, a Klee, a Kandinsky, a Daumier and three Picasso's that would have satisfied me if that were all that had been present.
Second only to having seen these works again -- my favorite being Van Gogh's The Road Menders -- I was joyously relieved that my friend thought the show was well worth the price of admission. Picasso's Bullfight is one of her all-time favorite paintings and it was in this show. I was so happy that something I love so much could be shared by someone else.
7691. Ms. No - 12/2/2004 9:17:03 PM Also, I nearly got into a brawl.
yes.
In an art gallery.
There was a middle-aged trying-so-hard-to-be-something couple there and it was clear that it was some kind of tutuorial-Pygmalionesque relationship. He was probably mid-60's and she was mid 40's and they were wandering from painting to painting and he seemed to be sort of instructing her about the finer points of each piece.
She was making me nervous because she was pointing really closely to the works. I got a bit nearer to them and realized that they were talking about what the names of the fucking colors were. "I believe this is cadmium yellow. Don't you think that's cadmium yellow?"
All I could think was "It's a fucking VAN GOGH you stupid cow!!!" and then she did it, she actually touched with her pointy ignorant finger the actual skin of The Road Menders.
I saw red and went to body check her, had actually taken a step when one of the docents intervened with a sharp "No! You can't touch them."
The woman withdrew her hand but didn't seem very phased and as the docent walked away I could see her pointing again. Her finger was within an inch of the actual painting. I followed this couple around until they left the Van Gogh room --- I'd have kept following them but my friend grabbed me by the arm and restrained me.
I was incensed. I wanted to beat that woman with my fists. Pull her hair out. Scream and rail at her until she collapsed in a little shivering puddle of abject remorse for having dared to defile my God with her stupid, pointy finger.
And oh how I wish I'd been the one to touch it. 7692. wabbit - 12/2/2004 10:00:15 PM I love the Phillips collection too. They have a small dark Degas that I adore, a woman leaning on her arm. And speaking of Sean Scully, they'll have an exhibit of his work autumn of 2005.
I'm not a particular fan of Pollock either, but some of Rothko's paintings shimmer. And some were painted with whatever was on sale at the hardware store, and it shows.
Ms. No, I can't tell you how many times I've come *this close* to clocking someone for touching. Some museum somewhere (London maybe?) has a sculpture piece that has been touched so many times, it is wearing away. They use it at the entrance to demonstrate why you shouldn't touch.
I have to use a wheelchair now when I go to museums and it's been a real eye-opener. I'm 6' tall when I'm on my feet, so it has never been much of a problem for me to see over most people, but when in a wheelchair, I'm constantly amazed at how I disappear. People think nothing of getting right in front of me. I try to stay back from whatever I'm looking at so I don't block everyone else, but there are always people who elbow their way right up to the wall. I've been tempted to role into a few of them. 7693. Ms. No - 12/2/2004 10:28:01 PM I'm a stand back sort of person myself and even in my "tall" shoes I max out at about 5'5. Some paintings have to be seen close up, but I find that most things look better from 8 feet away, often more.
I recall an exhibit that I saw at MOMA that I wasn't all that impressed with until I turned away from a painting and saw another one on the opposite side of this huge gallery room. From 30 feet away the painting just came to life -- the water moved and you could feel the wind in the sails of the boat. It was amazing. I walked the entire perimeter of that gallery looking at the paintings from across the room for the rest of the day.
It's irritating as hell to be in a crowded gallery. And how crowded I think it is hangs directly on how many people are milling their way obliviously between the art and the other patrons.
I'm in full favor of you mowing down the oblivious. ;-> 7694. wabbit - 12/2/2004 10:42:56 PM Next time you come East, whaddya say we down a couple martini's and mow down the oblivious together? I could always pretend to lose control in the Guggenheim, it would be almost like bowling.
Another problem with wheelchairs is getting through the gift shop at a museum. There is usually just enough room for the chair, but not if your hands are on the wheels, so I get a good roll-up and zip between display stands. This is much more entertaining than it may sound, because I get to watch the employees and other patrons hold their breath in near panic when they see what I'm about to do. I haven't destroyed anything yet. 7695. Ms. No - 12/2/2004 10:46:44 PM Oh god, I just got the image of you barrelling down the ramps at the Guggenheim shouting "GAAAAHHHHH!!!! Out of my way art-pansies!!!"
I'm laughing so hard my eyes are watering!
This is a definite date! 7696. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 12/2/2004 11:10:49 PM Thanks for the hearty laughs, Gals, and it's the world's loss, as well as those twentyfive who won't get to share your stellar insights, wabb! 7697. judithathome - 12/2/2004 11:40:19 PM There was a young girl who became quite the celebrity at age 12 for her paintings that looked like Picassos...Alexandra Nikita, I think was her name. A gallery here in town had several of her things and I never liked them but they looked tons better than that four year old's. 7698. thoughtful - 12/2/2004 11:43:15 PM so if you had to pick just one museum...which would it be?
There are so many i haven't been to, it's hard to choose. Of the ones I've been to, it's a tough call, but I'd have to pick the Gardner in boston. 7699. thoughtful - 12/2/2004 11:46:10 PM 
sigh...
7700. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 12/3/2004 12:55:02 AM The Gardner is a delight and within walking distance to my favorite other Boston haunt – the Zen garden attached to The MFA. (It's free and a lovely place to ponder.)
I also like the Freer in D.C.
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