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7859. concerned - 3/4/2012 9:09:37 PM How about this? Instead of foisting a not ready for prime time product on consumers, why not develop an alternative clean fuel or electric technology until commercial fleets can adopt it, sompetitively, before doing the big sell to private citizens? 7860. concerned - 3/4/2012 9:11:02 PM But I think it should be pursued, and I think it's in our country's interest that it be subsidized.
Ok, but how about decreasing the subsidy for households making over $100,000 a year and increasing it for households making less?
7861. iiibbb - 3/4/2012 9:25:42 PM Foist? No one is making anyone buy that car. It is not an uncommon practice for a company to introduce not ready for prime time products if only to establish themselves as the leader. That kind of thing can pay big dividends down the road... just look at the Prius and how hard a time other companies have had trying to introduce similar hybrids.
I would say 50% of me not buying it would be just by virtue of the fact it's a GM... there are few GM cars I've ever driven that I liked.
Why foist it on a commercial fleet?
Re: subsidizing households making $100,000.
Kinda socialist of you to suggest that the rich be punished for being rich.... not that I don't agree with you.
Nobody likes it when I say that if you make more than a certain retirement income in a year that you lose all or part of your Social Security benefit.
7862. Wombat - 3/4/2012 9:26:10 PM I bought a VW diesel when I got back from Iraq last year. It's a zero emission vehicle aleady, gas mileage is excellent, and if biodiesel hits the market (another government program worth pursuing), the switchover should be relatively painless. 7863. iiibbb - 3/4/2012 9:42:32 PM That's actually the car I would be most interested in getting, but biodiesel is notorious for gelling... so I'm not quite sure the VW's win over just a plain-old Honda Civic or something.
I'm going to be buying a used car in the near future and I'm having a devil of a time deciding since I'm soon to be moving where there is a lot of lake-effect snow (although not this year). 7864. arkymalarky - 3/4/2012 9:45:49 PM My non-hybrid civic gets 35-37 mpg. 7865. Wombat - 3/4/2012 9:47:15 PM iiibbb,
I wanted a station wagon to replace the 1996 Subaru Outback I had been using. The Subaru needed hi-test gas and got miserable mileage. The Jetta wagon gets twice the mileage per gallon, for about the same price per gallon. 7866. iiibbb - 3/4/2012 9:54:59 PM Jetta Wagon is great, but I worry about living in upstate NY with a diesel... plus the used market for Jetta TDI seems weak --- people aren't selling them or for a premium. 7867. concerned - 3/4/2012 9:55:27 PM Why foist it on a commercial fleet?
Or perhaps municipal fleets or public transportation. This has been done with natural gas, propane and even fuel cells, if I recall properly. Plus starting out this way would lay the groundwork for a fueling infrastructure that could be translated to general use down the road.
As far as the Volt goes, hardly anybody says anything about an electric recharging infrastructure. It's more like the world's most expensive golf cart.
7868. iiibbb - 3/4/2012 9:57:50 PM The Saturn I bought new is 16 yrs old with 200K on it... has never had a lick of trouble that you wouldn't expect... and gets 35 hwy (originally 20) and around 30 city (originally 35).
Not a lover of the Saturn company, but this car was a great car for what I spent.
I even autocrossed it for 7 years. 7869. concerned - 3/4/2012 9:59:24 PM Well, I'm looking at another used care down the road, probably a hybrid when they aren't significantly more expensive used than internal combustion only vehicles. I wasted all my extra bucks on a predatory geothermal heat pump company that cost me tens of thousands of excess dollars. It's the turn of others to get sucked into the Volt scam. 7870. iiibbb - 3/4/2012 9:59:31 PM originally 40 mpg hwy 7871. concerned - 3/4/2012 10:00:11 PM ...used car.... 7872. Wombat - 3/4/2012 10:12:59 PM iiibbb,
Where trucks go, diesel is available. In August, I drove from the DC-area out to southern Indiana and back by way of Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York State, and Connecticut. I had no problem finding diesel. I would have thought the used market on VW diesels is nonexistent. My car gets 40-50 mpg highways; 30-40 mpg suburban driving. 7873. iiibbb - 3/4/2012 10:17:41 PM It's not non-existent, but there are no deals. Although I found an 8-yr old one for $6500 (probably because it's a manual - which I want). I don't quite have that cash yet... we've been struggling with my unemployment and only just getting back on our feet. 7874. thoughtful - 3/5/2012 2:32:02 PM If you're dealing with snow, it's all wheel drive or nothing, IMO. Even tho it means sacrificing some mileage....you get 0 miles to gallon once a car is totalled. 7875. iiibbb - 3/5/2012 3:37:28 PM There is a saying in my line of work... AWD just gets you further into the woods before you get stuck.
It can be extended to... it has you driving in conditions you probably shouldn't.
Front Wheel drive with appropriate tires is quite manageable in the snow. My wife is a AWD person and used to say the same thing when we met... then we had a bad ice storm and she got her car stuck high-centering it on an ice berm. I pulled it off with my FWD car.
You can also have all the traction and stopping power in the world, but you car will still be totaled by the moron with bald tires and a RWD truck. 7876. iiibbb - 3/5/2012 3:46:43 PM This stuff never gets old
7877. thoughtful - 3/5/2012 3:56:20 PM Well, my experience is the opposite. I used to have a lot of hills between me and work, and more times than not, FW drive cars were stuck on the hills, but my subaru got me past them nicely.
I am not a fan of 4 wd as I lost control once because the wheels grab differently and i was shot back and forth across the road in the truck...another time hubby was going up a hill nicely and suddenly did a 180 in the truck. So I'm much more leery of 4wd. 7878. iiibbb - 3/5/2012 4:31:36 PM Using your head is still >>> Drivetrain
The modern computer assisted stability control are pretty impressive. We bought a Subaru Forester last year and we had to take it up a muddy field. It did it when several older 4WD couldn't do it.
It just depends.
I put snow tires on my car for the first time this winter and I was amazed at the difference on ice.
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