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7907. concerned - 4/19/2012 12:29:13 AM Anything based on NOAA or NASA weather data dating from 2007 or earlier at the minimum, as some of your cites are, are flawed, since McIntyre uncovered systematic fudging of the statistics dating from the previous decades up to that period by the NOAA, all weighted toward showing a rapidly rising average global temperature. 7908. Wombat - 4/19/2012 3:48:57 PM Perhaps Concerned should ask himself as a soi-disant "conservative" how a conservative party can be advocating the weakening--and/or destruction--of an agency created by a conservative president. 7909. vonKreedon - 4/19/2012 4:35:38 PM Con - Cite please for NOAA's temperature readings for 2005, 2007, and 2011 being unreliable. 7910. concerned - 4/19/2012 4:38:54 PM I really like the NASA site animation of global temperature averages over the last several decades linked by vK, but have to wonder if it is properly normalized since there were two years in the 1930's and 1940's when no sea ice was observed during the summer in the arctic ocean, yet the graphic shows the arctic ocean temperatures as being considerably higher now than 70-80 years ago, and we have never come anywhere close to having an ice free arctic ocean at any time since the 1940's.
It has been well documented that many temperature monitoring stations at higher latitudes have been closed during the last couple of decades, leaving higher and higher proportions of the remainder left in urban centers without any correction being attempted for the 'heat island' effect. This in itself can easily account for all the reported global temperature increase since 1980.
Wombat - are you comfortable with the 'Soviet Union' approach where government agencies always become more obtrusive and powerful without limit, or have you simply never seriously considered where those limits ought to be? 7911. Wombat - 4/19/2012 5:02:38 PM Concerned,
I know that you are a historical ignoramus, but your likening of Federal agencies to Soviet-style bureaucraciers is stupid, even for you. You might want to refamiliarize yourself with the constitutional checks and balances that limit the power of all branches of the US government, in marked contrast to the former Soviet Union. 7912. Wombat - 4/19/2012 5:03:50 PM *bureaucracies* 7913. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:04:06 PM Satellite temperature records and placed into historical and pre-historical perspective
I feel more comfortable with estimating global temperature by including the satellite record which is not subject to the several uncontrolled variables I have mentioned in my last post. The satellite record is notably excluded from the official NOAA/NASA records, since they are relying on their heat island temperature stations exclusively to scare people.
The satellite record of atmospheric temperature shows a flat or declining trend over the last decade. At most, the average global temperature is now that of the medieval warm period which raises a number of interesting questions that are not being pursued, unfortunately, by the alarmists. Probably good reason for that - they would pretty much undermine or destroy their own cause if they did. 7914. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:07:06 PM Re. 7911 -
Any such linkage is in your own mind, Wombat. I take it you are comfortable with with the EPA calling CO2 a 'pollutant', even though in no reasonable or logical sense could it be considered one.
Given the above, you certainly don't have grounds to call me 'stupid' or an 'ignoramus'. 7915. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:13:15 PM It is also totally irrational to fixate on anthropogenic CO2 and ignore the orders of magnitude greater effects of water vapor on global temperature. 7916. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:16:05 PM Wombat probably also believes that the current administration and Democrats in general give a flying fuck about the US Constitution and governmental checks and balances in general when so many of them have gone on record as wanting to seriously modify and/or discard them because they are 'outdated', etc., etc.
Ha! 7917. Wombat - 4/19/2012 5:24:15 PM Examples? 7918. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:27:33 PM Interesting that global temperatures today are probably lower than the average between 9000 BC and 0 AD. What kind of CO2 belching Flinstonemobiles were they using then? 7919. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:30:19 PM The GISP2 records actually show a 2C declining trend on average over the last 2,000 years that continues today. 7920. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:32:01 PM Over the longer term, the current interglacial optimum is the longest of any during the last half million years. Probably the basis for the original global cooling scare that was fashionable in the '70's. 7921. concerned - 4/19/2012 5:39:05 PM Re. 7920 -
Make that 400,000 years, not half million. 7922. concerned - 4/19/2012 7:07:37 PM Quote from cite:
From figure 3 it is obvious that the global meteorological record (Fig.4) begins in the final part of the Little Ice Age, and thereby documents the following temperature increase, especially clear since about 1915. In other words, the temperature increase documented by meteorological records represents the temperature recovery following the cold Little Ice Age. The ongoing climate debate is essentially about this being mainly a natural temperature recovery, or caused by atmospheric CO2, especially for the time after 1975? It can, however, from figures 2, 3 and 4 be concluded that the temperature increase 1975-2000 is not unique when compared with past records, and that the net effect on temperature by atmospheric CO2 has been small or even absent (Fig.3).
So you all can stop fibrillating now.
7923. concerned - 4/19/2012 7:18:06 PM A problem that dwarfs global warming in terms of temperature increase magnitude: Urban Heat Islands
It would seem that planting trees in urban environments is one of the most practical ways to ameliorate this problem. Interesting that Leftists want to cram people like sardines in urban centers which would tend to maximize the heat island effect. 7924. OhioSTOPAS - 4/19/2012 7:42:21 PM Wrong. The contribution of urban heat islands to global temperature increase is minor compared to the effect of greenhouse gases. Cite 7925. concerned - 4/19/2012 7:48:47 PM Re. 7924 -
Read more carefully - that is not what I claimed. I was talking about the relative change to the urban environment itself due to the UHI effect compared to global warming. 7926. OhioSTOPAS - 4/19/2012 9:33:04 PM Not really - but if so, then what was your point?
Paved surfaces cause a localized increase in temperature. So does turning on your oven. What does that have to do with world-wide temperature increases?
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