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8112. alistairConnor - 3/18/2006 12:54:20 AM Well, Mort Shuman is well-respected in France in his own right. Horrible singer, but great songs : "Il pleut sur le lac Majeur", "Papa Tango Charlie", etc.
Brel, of course, is in the pantheon of intangible cultural references. Not French, he was Belgian - Flemish, in fact. I wish I could have seen him in the title role of "Man of La Mancha", one of his great moments. 8113. uzmakk - 3/18/2006 2:45:26 PM Uz, my remarks in Message # 8068 were provocatively ad hominem, perhaps because if I addressed your views in political language it would have been even nastier.
I was going to let this go, but I must register my amusement.
But perhaps I misunderstood. We probably agree that justice should be administered in an unsentimental manner. To me, this cuts two ways :
- it means that justice should not go soft out of pity for people who didn't get a good start in life;
- it also means that it should not seek to punish out of anger and revenge. I agree with bullet one. And perhaps we agree on bullet two also. We must moderate our anger and revenge, but dispense with it? Impossible, you bloodless toad! (provocatively ad hominum)
Justice ought to seek the best outcome, and needs not only to be just (and seen to be just) but to be effective.Seen to be just by whom? Just by whose judgement? Effective by who's judgement? This might mean that some idiot who burns down a church or ruins a football field gets some sort of non-custodial sentence, for example, because sending him to jail would turn him into a full-time criminal, at a far greater overall cost to society than if he's forced to spend his time helping out old folks or kids for a couple of years.
I agree with this because I am a right thinking American savage who prefers American democracy to European civilization. Just because I'm a savage and you are civilized doesn't mean we can't come to some kind of an agreement.(nyuk, nyuk, nyuk) My first thought is not to lighten the sentence, whereas it is the first thing out of our liberal talkshow host's mouth. A matter of degree and priorities as with most things. There's nothing like a short jail sentence, a very short jail sentence, to "build character" among those who are not completely lost.
A justice system which is closely coupled with public opinion is not likely to have the latitude to develop effective strategies. We don't vote on the structural design of bridges; we don't elect the engineers either.
Do you think that the analogy between the human and the mechanical is a good one? Once again, it is a question of degree; none of us denies that we are designing some kind of a system and that our outlook is essentially mechanical. I'm not fond of your compartmentalizing and cutting the feedback loops to the citizenry, Citizen Connor.
8114. uzmakk - 3/18/2006 2:13:07 PM Connor, I believe you are speaking of a professional class which shares your conception of "individual human rights." Yes? 8115. arkymalarky - 3/18/2006 5:23:21 PM I want to start an "Uzmakk for President" movement. I get dibs on campaign chair. 8116. judithathome - 3/18/2006 10:36:06 PM I just ordered a CD by this guy, with whom I post on another forum. He is insanely talented as this piece shows. Give it a listen:
Steve Schalchlin's Song "Save Me a Seat 8117. uzmakk - 3/20/2006 3:09:31 PM Thank you for the vote of confidence, Arky, but I am going to take your previous advice which was to work for one's issue if one has an issue. However, if I was drafted to run for POTUS I might reconsider.(nyuk nyuk)
Judith, would you like a comment? Too much visible ego in that particular song for me. This is not to say that the man is not oozing talent. 8118. alistairconnor - 3/20/2006 3:58:32 PM Connor, I believe you are speaking of a professional class which shares your conception of "individual human rights." Yes?
No, I believe there are fundamental human rights which, once agreed upon, should be set in concrete, and then scrupulously defended by a professional class. This is not a particularly European concept.
Otherwise, you start making exceptions, and you go to hell. For example : yes, in principle, everyone is entitled to a fair trial, and is protected against arbitrary detention, and cruel and unusual punishment. But we except terrorists, obviously. Also, paedophile murderers. Oh, and while we're at it, that guy whose dog craps on my lawn every day. 8119. Ms. No - 3/20/2006 5:34:52 PM Alistair,
You're forgetting the Parable of the Cave.
What we perceive to be fundamental human rights today may not even encompass those that next year we will perceive to be human.
Would you truly argue for a system of government that was not answerable to the governed? 8120. alistairconnor - 3/20/2006 6:20:14 PM That's not what I'm arguing at all. I'm saying (again) that fundamental principles should be held at arm's length. In France, we have a constitution that gets changed every time something in it becomes inconvenient for the government. That doesn't offer individuals much protection from their government. I think the US model is somewhat better in that respect.
On the other hand, you're right that it's a conservative mechanism I'm talking about : it's no easier to extend new rights than to abrogate old ones. 8121. anomie - 3/22/2006 1:04:01 AM Sarah McLachlan
Sarah McLachlan
Am I the only adult male who missed this artist?
She's a frickin genius if she has anything to do with the arrangements. Every song has a hook and and a vocal miracle.
Good lord, this is why we are human...listen to this women. 8122. Macnas - 3/28/2006 9:35:26 AM Nikki Sudden is dead.
8123. wonkers2 - 3/28/2006 1:21:48 PM Especially that guy whose dog craps on my lawn every day! 8124. Ms. No - 3/28/2006 4:58:35 PM Connor,
Sorry, I didn't mean to wander off.
I'm saying (again) that fundamental principles should be held at arm's length.
I agree that they should but I don't know how you're suggesting that we ensure such a thing.
Personally, I believe I'm fondest of Plato's model, but only if the folks in charge are truly wise and just, which cannot be counted upon. Since it cannot, I must subscribe to a more democratic ideal. 8125. Ms. No - 3/28/2006 5:23:06 PM anomie,
Yes, I think she is responsible for a lot of her arrangements. I could be mistaken. She's quite a talented artist and I've enjoyed a lot of her work but her vocals are so specifically stylized that I can get over-done on her sometimes ---- not her music so much as her vocal style.
My personal modern, musical goddess is Tori Amos. Not every single thing she puts out sends me, but, so many times, listening to her play is like having my chest torn open and a whirlwind blow through it--- not painful, but cathartic and energizing. She plays piano that way as well. An aquaintence of mine has actually seen her use a drool bucket during performance. Talk about tearing it up and leaving it all over the stage. She's like a force of nature, and at the same time she can be cute and sweet and fragile seeming and incredibly girly. Tori Amos is like the archetypal woman to my mind. Like if you looked up woman in the Dictionary of the Universe there she'd be.
However, most of her songs are not as lyrical as MacLachlan's so they're harder to sing along to. I know a lot of people enjoy both artists, but if what appeals to you about MacLachlan is the melodiousness of her music then certain of Amos albums would probably not appeal to you much at all.
8126. anomie - 3/28/2006 10:52:56 PM Ms. No, I know exactly what you mean about a singer like SM overdoing it. From what I've heard, (mostly the Afterglow concert), she stops short of the country-western yodel. I think her restraint creates a certain tension that adds to the experience cause you can feel her potential to explode. I guess I was a bit manic with my recommendation, but music is sometimes a completely irrational thrill - almost an astonishment of some kind. And with all due respect to whales, is an experience unique to humans.
I like all styles of music. I've heard of Tori Amos many times but I don't know if I've ever listened to her perform. I'll check her out. Thanks for the recommendation. I like artists who feel their music, but I could do without the drool bucket. Ha! 8127. Ms. No - 3/28/2006 11:11:47 PM I'm hardly one to throw stones at others for enthusiastic endorsements ---- and I don't think I'd actually want to watch Tori use a drool bucket, but the very thought that she'd be so committed to her performance that she needed one is kind of cool to me.
Her first two albums are probably her most accessible for a first-time listener. I'll bet you've probably caught a couple of her tunes on the radio somewhere once or twice if you're ever in the habit of listening to the alternative music stations.
8128. anomie - 3/29/2006 12:35:13 AM Well Ms.No, I think you just made Tori Amos a few bucks off me. I listened to a few Amazon samples and the Beekeeper album sounded real good. Excellent production...her voice and piano came through very clear even on my crummy laptop. I'll start with that one. 8129. Ms. No - 3/29/2006 12:52:20 AM That's one I don't have, but she is an amazing pianist. I like her really big, bright stuff the best --- but I'm a fan of "big" piano stuff anyway. Or the way I define big, anyway --- Billy Joel, Scott Joplin, Chopin, Randy Newman
Amos studied at Juliard for awhile but got grief there because she wasn't much of a rule follower. I think her first band in LA was called Y Can't Tori Read --- which refered to her kind of blase attitude about learning to actually read music. She was a piano prodigy from a very young age, why did she need to learn to read music?
I've no idea whether she reads now or not. I don't think she arranges for anyone but herself so she may not. It would be interesting to know. 8130. wabbit - 3/29/2006 1:50:22 AM Since you two are discussing Tori Amos and Sarah McLachlan (and you should both email me, btw), anyone like Kate Bush (even in small doses)? Wendy Waldman?
Ok, I'm old, shoot me.
I've been trying to get a cd of Jesse Colin Young's first album, Soul Of A City Boy for ages, without having to pay $150 on eBay. I even wrote to JCY and *he* doesn't have a copy (he lost a lot of stuff in a house fire). That and Together (aka Good Times) are just a couple things on vinyl I would like to have on disk. I suppose I'll get around to doing a transfer some day. Some albums just don't seem to be available. 8131. judithathome - 3/29/2006 2:41:37 AM What in hell is a drool bucket?
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