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8936. Trillium - 11/24/2013 7:33:58 PM I live in the South. There are random separatists here...
Just like in California, Texas, Quebec, Catalonia etc. but nothing I would consider significant.
Much more significant in numbers are elderly emigrants from the North who retire here because real estate, taxes, and cost of living are much lower.
I moved out of NYC after 20 years because I had young children and the schools there were unusable due to violence and lousy curriculum. I still have relatives and friends up there.
Many of the NYC schools are de facto segregated. The city also has its share of hate crimes. Right now there are complaints of people being knocked out by "youths". Orthodox Jews are sensitive to hate crimes against them and have actively protested the assaults in Borough Park and elsewhere. This isn't really something new, but a spike in the number of assaults has drawn protests. 8937. Trillium - 11/24/2013 7:42:41 PM About the judgment of (black?) people, Arky-- I don't think "black" people necessarily have better judgment than "white" people. Judgment isn't a race thing -- but judgment is very much an emotional thing, powerfully affected by cinema and art.
After "Jud Suess" was shown in the 1940s, there were riots in some places. That movie, by the way, has a very interesting history. It was specifically designed to stoke economic and ethnic hatred, but it used respectable actors and was loosely based on a historical story that was "rearranged". 8938. arkymalarky - 11/24/2013 8:54:07 PM You simply haven't presented a compelling reason for the producers to censor that show, steamy pile though it seems. I googled and couldn't find a single opinion paralling yours. I don't believe you have responded to any recent movies with much more impact (Fruitvale Station. anyone?) that shores up your assertion that this stupid show will lead to violence against people who look like Kathy Bates. Seriously? Free speech is messy. But the sky doesn't fall whenever a stupid show hamhandedly handles an ugly aspect of history. 8939. arkymalarky - 11/24/2013 9:02:59 PM And I really think if you want to make your point you should use examples from the 21st century, of which there are many. As a Southern teacher of English and history in a very diverse and high poverty school I face issues of slavery and race head on. We read and watch movies that disturb some people's sensibilities and I get complaints but I will continue to do so. I was asked by administration not to discuss the OJ trial. The whole argument was the one used for maintaining slavery: if you end it slaves will turn on Southern whites. I don't buy it. 8940. Trillium - 11/25/2013 11:57:19 PM Arky, here are some links to Northeastern news that you probably don't see much of in your neck of the woods.
This is from September 9:
Union Square Random Killing
There are more, if you actually google things like "Brooklyng + Couple beaten at shopping center + hate" etc. I suspect you'd rather not know, though.
This Nov. 13 newsclip about the Midwood neighborhood gets the drift:
Midwood Neighborhood March
8941. Trillium - 11/26/2013 12:08:51 AM Brooklyn, not Brooklyng! Dangit. 8942. arkymalarky - 11/26/2013 12:53:37 AM That doesn't support your argument. Did he watch a tv show? And even if it did, free speech trumps it. I'm afraid if you really begin to pay attention to music, movies, what's online, what's on TV, what's on facebook, you'd despair over the fate of humanity. Normal people put these things in perspective and you can never mitigate enough for the abnormal ones. I don't support censorship of material that shows the ugly side of people. It never works anyway. Black people know slavery was bad. If major incidents haven't occurred as a result of much better offerings on the topic, then I doubt a show no one is even talking about will be that dangerous. But who can account for the motives of any individual wacko? Did you argue against the release of Schindler's List out of concern for backlash against Germans? I'd stay out of grocery lines, or at least not look at the magazines, if I felt society were hanging by so tenuous a thread. 8943. Trillium - 11/26/2013 4:21:04 AM Arky, I do not know you personally, but you are coming across as condescending and rude.
We disagree, fine -- but you are coming across like an asshole. First you exaggerate my criticism as some sort of hysteria; then characterize my objection as going against free speech, Then you dig at my having come across this bullshit while reading on a grocery line.
I lived two decades in New York City. The racial and ethnic tensions there were much more pronounced than anything I have seen in the South. And for whatever reason, in the last months this tension has apparently escalated, and a lot of people are concerned about the level of violence. I have a theory that tv and movies are contributing to this. You apparently disagree-- fine. But no need to be an asshole in your disagreement. 8944. arkymalarky - 11/26/2013 5:10:39 AM I live in a very different world from you and I think racial issues are better handled without trying to avoid what is impossible to avoid in the first place. I also think your suggestion wrt reactions over what is published is condescending. Possible violent responses to whatever is published or said have always been. Are some people irresponsible in what they publish? Of course. Are they to blame for the responses of others? No. And I don't see my response as rude. I was very serious. You really don't seem aware of what's out there in terms of controversial content.
You are offended by what you saw and I get that, even though I myself am tough to offend. But you went beyond that to suggest the creators should be accountable for someone's reaction to it, a hypothetical scenario I find far fetched and a position I feel is contrary to a free society. You didn't respond to any of the substance of my dispute with that. Instead you post links from the New York Daily News as you imply I'm some sort of pollyanna who's unaware in my "neck of the woods" of how much people can hate each other. I see nothing offensive in my response. 8945. judithathome - 11/26/2013 5:36:03 PM Nor do I...
You took the remark about reading in the grocery line personally when it was meant for "society" at large and then specifically called Arky an asshole...who's coming across as condescending and rude here?
Get back to me about this North/South stuff when blacks are pulled to their deaths behind pick-up trucks down 5th Avenue in NYC. 8946. arkymalarky - 11/26/2013 6:00:38 PM In all honesty I have to say I was referring directly to Trillium because that's where she said she got the info. But there's no reason for her to take offense at it. She truly seems unaware of what's out there wrt the entertainment industry--TV, music, movies, etc.
You're right about the South and it's getting worse due to real people doing and saying real things when they should know better. It's appalling how backward the AR govt has gone in such a short time. 8947. Trillium - 11/27/2013 1:01:26 AM More later -- I have to be someplace else.
But we could clarify what it means to call some one out for doing something that is socially irresponsible. For some reason Arky, you equate that with censorship. I think very differently about that. 8948. Trillium - 11/27/2013 1:04:53 AM One movie that I found appalling (and maybe you don't) is "Dead Poets Society", where the teacher (Robin Williams) rips out textbook pages that he doesn't approve of and tells the students to toss them.
I understand what it's like to disagree with a textbook -- but ripping out pages was unbelievably offensive to me. That movie influenced a great many kids, and in one notable case, students at Liberty University acted out a scene by standing on their desks in support of a teacher they liked. I sure as hell hope that they didn't take away a subliminal message about censoring what you disagree with.
But I digress. And if I keep writing I'll be late for the next job. 8949. arkymalarky - 11/27/2013 1:33:47 AM I equate saying hold them accountable for any reactions with supporting de facto censorship. Birth of a Nation supported the KKK, so your comparison was flawed from the gitgo and your response to my expression of that opinion was way out of proportion to anything I said.
I like many aspects of modern pop culture and music and I'm not inclined to react to it like some people. I do think you're overreacting based on what is out there, but you truly seem to me to be unaware of what is out there.
A former student once told me about a Russian snuff video he'd seen online. I told him I wished he hadn't told me. You can't unsee and unhear things. I meant it when I said that if what you saw strikes you so strongly you should just avoid it because it's not going away. If that opinion makes me an asshole then so be it. I've certainly been called worse.
8950. arkymalarky - 11/27/2013 1:42:43 AM No. I did not find Dead Poets Society appalling or offensive. Not even close. I found it vacuous and lame. 8951. Trillium - 11/27/2013 3:58:09 AM I said the producers should be held accountable. You exaggerated what I said, Arky -- that was what annoyed me.
What does it mean to you, to hold someone accountable?
"Accountable" is not the same thing as censoring. It might mean taking up a thorny subject and exploring it, respectfully. 8952. arkymalarky - 11/27/2013 4:16:30 AM Your attempt to pretzel an other than widely accepted definition of accountability post hoc is beginning to annoy me, and if you're satisfied that you've justified everything you said, then I think it's time to move on. 8953. judithathome - 11/27/2013 6:49:12 AM ...students at Liberty University acted out a scene by standing on their desks in support of a teacher they liked. I sure as hell hope that they didn't take away a subliminal message about censoring what you disagree with.
Okay, this is a joke, correct? Because Liberty University is hardly a hotbed of liberal or subversive thinking...quite the contrary, they are more likely to censor anything they disagree with....especially anything Jerry Falwell might have disagreed with.
8954. Trillium - 11/29/2013 6:52:40 PM Nope, no joke. This incident happened at some point after "Dead Poets Society" was released in 1989, and probably before the internet became big -- because my google is not pulling it up.
I read about it in a major newsmagazine, though -- probably Time or Newsweek. A professor at Liberty U. was fired for allowing discussion of some taboo topic (evolution?) and his students protested his firing by standing on their desks, exactly mimicking the movie.
Apparently this movie affected them very much. 8955. Trillium - 11/29/2013 7:06:51 PM Liberty U. started small in 1971, but now claims 11,000 students on-campus (over 90,000 students including their on-line classes). US News & World Report claims that Liberty is expanding and thriving while comparable institutions struggle, so perhaps it is worth paying more attention to what they are doing.
I can't google up the incident I described, but while googling I found a lot of other news about Liberty.
Liberty U. recently had a bizarre shooting incident where a student from Lubbock, Texas, was killed after attacking a security guard with a hammer. The details raise more questions than answers.
A gay former student by the name of Brandon Ambrosino wrote an article for the Atlantic about his experiences with Liberty: "Being Gay at Jerry Falwell's University". Funny and interesting article, with specific professors and counselors mentioned by name.
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